Are you someone who is thinking of starting a podcast? In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Becca, CEO at Maximum Lawyer shares her insights on starting a podcast and covers the various aspects needed to get things off the ground.

Podcasts are quickly becoming a popular platform for people to talk about different things and share their thoughts, especially since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic. Starting a podcast is a fairly easy thing to do but there are a few key things to consider in order to do it the right way. One thing is deciding how you will record your audio. Using the voice recorder on your phone, the microphone on your computer or even an external microphone makes recording a podcast versatile. It allows people to record audio from anywhere, whether it be at home, in the office or from the car. Many podcasters begin with a simple setup and overtime will upgrade as their audience and fan base increases.

Becca provides some options for editing podcasts. There are many softwares like Audacity and GarageBand that can be used to edit. AI driven softwares have also been released which edits podcasts for you, making the process faster. Another way to edit is to outsource and hire someone who can use their skills to take editing off your plate so you can focus on recording. Starting a podcast also includes choosing a podcast host, which is where you will upload all of your recordings. Whether it is Transistor, SimpleCast or Anchor, it is important to use this tool to submit your podcast episodes into the directories for Apple Podcasts or Spotify so listeners can access it.

Take a listen to learn how to start your podcast!

Episode Highlights:

  • 00:24 How to start a podcast
  • 1:21 Options for recording audio
  • 5:51 The different podcast hosting platforms

Resources:

Transcripts: Your Podcast Launch Guide #simplified 

Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the maximum Lawyer podcast. Maximum lawyer podcast. Your hosts, Jim hacking and Tyson new tricks. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:00:24) - Welcome to another episode of the Maximum Lawyer podcast. It's Becca, the CEO at Maximum Lawyer, and today we're discussing how to start a podcast. This topic was requested in the Maximum Lawyer Facebook group, and if you have a topic you'd like us to cover, we'd love to hear it! You can text us at (314) 501-9260, and just let us know any topics that you'd be interested in us talking about. Let's get started. If there's one thing I've seen in the entrepreneurial space in general, it's the tendency for people to overthink and overcomplicate the technical side of starting a podcast. And starting a podcast can be a relatively quick and easy thing to do. I will say there's an industry jargon to be learned, but like anything, a few Google searches can take care of that.

Speaker 2 (00:01:21) - And it can even be free. It can be 100% free. And I'll tell you how. Today I'm going to mention quite a few products and softwares in this episode, but don't worry, we'll link all of the products in the show notes. So here are the basics to getting started. How will you record your audio? A few options are using the voice recorder on your phone. The embedded microphone in your computer, or you can purchase an external microphone. I know multiple top podcasters who record on their computers in zoom and sometimes released episodes calling in from their cell phones. And you know what? The audio isn't great, but you know what else? Their followers want to hear from them anyway. They look to them for friendship, community, and strategic business advice, and that's what they get. While investing in quality equipment can improve, your show, content is key. As you progress, you can always upgrade your equipment. The quality of your podcast audio in the beginning will not make or break the success of your podcast, but your content will.

Speaker 2 (00:02:32) - Next, what will you record in? Like I mentioned, you can just use the voice Memo app, you can use zoom on your computer, or you can use a software like we use at maximum layer called Riverside FM. I don't recommend getting started in Riverside, but it is great once you'd like better local recordings for when you have guests. Simply put, this avoids the final audio recording. Having it cut out while someone's speaking. If they don't have great internet connection or slower internet speeds. Local recordings create a file for each speaker, which also allows for more detailed editing of the final audio. Next step how will you edit your podcast? Audacity is an open source and free software for podcast editing. I've also heard that you can use GarageBand on Macs, and there are a ton of AI driven softwares that claim to edit the audio for you. This could be great to play around with if you have extra time, but don't get hung up on it. None of these have truly impressed me yet.

Speaker 2 (00:03:37) - They're too new, though it is extremely convenient to have a software take out the A and UMS automatically, so you'll have to decide if they're worth paying for. And you can also outsource. You can find editors on places like Fiverr and Upwork. My best recommendation for editors is to reach out to someone you know and see who they use. You can even email us to get connected to our editor if you'd like to see if it's a good fit. My email is Becca at Maximum Lawyer Comm. Next, you'll need to write and record your intro and outro. If you're not a creative writer, then ChatGPT will get you a great first version. The intro and outro can change at any time, so don't overthink this. You can also get a very affordable intro from Fiverr with a really quick turnaround time. You just have to send them your script. They will often include royalty free music in the final product as well. If you're up for creating your own intro, use Google to search for royalty free music.

Speaker 2 (00:04:41) - Once you've recorded your intro and outro, grab your royalty free music and your audio recording, and then you're going to overlay those in audacity and boom, you have an intro. I personally would also fade in and fade out the beginning and the end of your intro music. Next you can create your podcast cover art. There are templates you can use in Canva or again, plenty of options on Fiverr for this. Next, you need to sign up for podcast hosting. Here's the thing about podcast hosting. They all do the same things for the most part, so it's all about price and various feature preferences. I have worked with Libsyn, Transistor, Simple Cast and Anchor, which is now known as Spotify for podcasters. Libsyn would be my least favorite. Honestly, I just feel like the user experience isn't that great in it. And then in addition to that, you also pay by the storage amount you upload per month. So if your podcast got longer or if you ended up publishing more episodes, you would end up paying more.

Speaker 2 (00:05:51) - Next up is transistor and this is what we currently use at maximum layer. I've also worked with Simple Cast, which was fairly similar. It is a paid option, but it has a better user experience than I feel like Libsyn has. And then finally Spotify for podcasters, which is the free option out of the four. This is where I would have anyone interested in hosting a podcast start. You are not married to your podcast host. You can transfer over a podcast to another host at any time, so do not overthink this step. Next you're going to record your first episode. Then you'll need to submit the intro episode as episode number one in your podcast hosting. This is going to allow you to submit your podcast RSS feed to the podcast directories like Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, etc. not too long ago, you had to manually add your RSS feed to all of the directories within the settings of your podcast hosts. I've seen some automatically do this for you now, so just make sure you check the settings to see if you have to copy and paste it in there, or if they've done it for you.

Speaker 2 (00:07:04) - It's going to depend on the podcast host that you choose. Out of everything we've talked about today, the truth is, there's nothing stopping you from starting a podcast tomorrow for free. Record on the Voice Memos app in your phone. Use audacity to edit and use Spotify for podcasters to host your podcast. Sure, if you have extra time and funds, you can buy equipment. But if you're overwhelmed with decision fatigue and using these things to avoid getting started, then just start with the free options and add equipment and improvements later. A lot of people start podcasts and find out they don't actually like it. This is a great way that you can get started for free with no risk, and invest in your podcast if you decide to stick with it. That's it for today's episode. If you have any questions on this topic, you can head to the Maximum Lawyer Facebook group and ask us any looming questions there. See you next time!

Speaker 1 (00:08:04) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer Podcast podcast. Stay in contact with your hosts and to access more content.

Speaker 1 (00:08:12) - Go to Maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE

Are you a lawyer who is struggling with keeping your head above water? In this podcast episode, Jim and Tyson interview Maria Parker, a training and development consultant specializing in trauma-informed practice. Maria shares her journey from mental health nursing to psychotherapy, her work with legal professionals, and her approach to addressing mental health issues. 

There is no doubt that legal professionals deal with stress, trauma and burnout. It is a part of the job that some handle well and others don’t at all. Lawyers work with people who are going through tough times and deal with situations that are not light in nature, Maria talks about the psychotherapy approach she brings to addressing this aspect of the job. Many lawyers deal with trauma and the profession is the perfect way to get away from it. Working a job that is always busy and on the go allows for your brain cognitively to leave your body or leave that trauma and focus on other people’s needs. Lawyers are always thinking about the client, the case, prepping for the trial and the list goes on. It is the perfect way to not think about anything that is upsetting you personally.

Maria talks about the importance of having a safe space for people to talk about their trauma and stressors. A lot of people will not tell anyone about their troubles because they may feel that person will judge them or misunderstand them. Once there is a safe space, whether that be in a friend’s home or therapist’s office, people feel validated in their thoughts and experiences. From this point, things can really change for someone who is going through a hard time. There is an issue with just diagnosing someone and prescribing medication so they can deal with the pain and go on with life. Maria believes it is crucial to get the diagnosis and acknowledge it, but then parking it and getting to what is underneath. This means getting to the root of the trauma and working backwards to know what has led someone to where they are now.

Tyson, Jim and Maria talk about how common anxiety is among lawyers. Because of the stressful nature of the legal field, many lawyers struggle with anxiety and all that comes with it. There is a struggle to say yes to everything because of the competition that exists within firms. Many lawyers don't get much rest because they are up at all hours working on cases or researching for their trials. There is also an emotionless nature that comes with law where lawyers have to be serious and stone cold to remain professional, which really adds to someone feeling anxious. 

Listen in to learn more from Maria Parker!

Jim's Hack: Check out the book “Going Infinite: The Rise and Fall of a New Tycoon”, by Michael Lewis. Which talks about Sam Bankman-Fried and the rise and fall of crypto. The book provides some good lessons on paying attention to the rules and about the importance of following procedures.

Maria Tip: Check out the book “No Bad Parts: Healing Trauma and Restoring Wholeness with the Internal Family Systems Model” by Dr. Richard Schwartz which is all about family systems.

Tyson's Tip: Check out the new feature in Canva called Magic Studio, in which you tell it what you want and it will create it for you using AI. https://www.canva.com/

This post may contain affiliate links, which means that I may receive a commission if you make a purchase using these links. As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

Episode Highlights:

  • 1:57 Maria shares the gap she saw in addressing stress and trauma in the legal profession
  • 11:11 The significance of creating a safe space for individuals in therapy
  • 20:43 The increasing prevalence of anxiety among lawyers
  • 23:15 How anxiety serves as a protective mechanism

Connect with Maria:

Resources:

Transcripts: Addressing Trauma and Mental Health in the Legal Profession with Maria Parker

Jim (00:01.13)
Welcome back to the Maximum Lawyer Podcast. I'm James Oliver, hacking the third.

Maria (00:03.566)
Thank you.

Tyson (00:05.986)
And I'm Ross Tyson Mutrix the first. What's up, Jimmy? That's a new one.

Jim (00:09.526)
How you doing buddy? Just being silly.

Tyson (00:13.166)
I'm doing well. Hey, I like it. That's the first time we've done that one. So I'm going to start going by Ross Dyson, the first, just because no senior, just the first. So what's up? Busy day, I guess.

Jim (00:28.15)
Well, you know, you'll recall that back when we used to do the podcast in the old days that we always had construction sounds and trucks going by and all that stuff. I'm surprised, we've been recording all day, I'm surprised we haven't heard that downstairs where we finally have started our build out of the ground floor of our building that we bought back in December. So we knew these guys were coming, we haven't paid them any money yet, but like they're almost done. They showed up yesterday and just got to work, like they had the whole team here knocking stuff down and building up walls, it's crazy.

Maria (00:50.36)
Thanks for watching!

Tyson (00:58.162)
You better get that checkbook ready. They're gonna want that money. So, nice, nice. Well, let's get into our guest today. Let's not keep her waiting too much. Our guest, and this, I think, this is the first Scottish person we've had on the podcast. I may be wrong about that, but I'm pretty… Oh, did you say, oh, I think you said Scottish. You're Irish? Okay, Irish. Wow.

Jim (01:00.027)
Mm-hmm. Yep.

Jim (01:14.922)
I think this is Irish. She's Irish, buddy. I think.

Maria (01:19.716)
No.

Jim (01:21.503)
So start that part again.

Tyson (01:23.39)
Hold on. Okay. Oops. My bad. I thought you said Scottish because I was going to ask you a question about Scotch. Okay. That's funny. All right. Let me say it again. Hold on. All right. So let's not keep our guest waiting today. Our guest today is Maria Parker. And I think she might be our first Irish person on the podcast. And I don't know if I'm, I don't think I'm wrong about that Jimbo, but I think that that's pretty cool.

Maria (01:28.674)
Ha ha ha!

Jim (01:28.766)
If it's not Scottish, it's crap.

Maria (01:31.802)
Ha ha

Tyson (01:47.854)
But let me give you a little bit of information about her. As a training and development consultant at Insight Training, Maria provides bespoke trauma informed practice and service development training to professionals and legal professionals. With over 20 years experience as a mental health nurse and psychotherapist, she has the credentials and competencies to deliver high quality, experiential and safe learning experiences that meet the specific needs to each organization or individual. And I will tell you that is a difficult bio to read.

And so it's, I made it through it though. Maria. Welcome to the show.

Maria (02:21.882)
Thank you both very much. Thank you. It is difficult. Yes, I need to maybe do put in a one-liner or two lines there. Well done.

Jim (02:31.126)
Maria, thanks for being with us. How did you get into the business of helping people?

Maria (02:37.97)
At 18, after I left school, I went into nursing because that was the history of the family into the caring professions. It was brilliant. It was a great, great experience to work in acute mental health for as long as I did. But I realised the longer I was in it, the more I realised that I did not believe it didn't align with my values in terms of just using medication to treat symptoms.

people and putting people into boxes. So I really aligned myself and retrained as a psychotherapist, which I loved because it was about root cause. It's about let's get to the root of the issue and let's help the whole person as opposed to just treating symptoms. I worked a lot with young people. I specialised in child and adolescent mental health and we literally just medicated symptoms. So it really, you know, there were times when a young child would be prescribed.

antidepressant medication and part of my role would be then to speak to parents and explain to them that even though your child has been in because of a suicide attempt, they're now going to be more suicidal for the next three weeks because of the side effects of the medication we're putting them on. So I just couldn't use those words anymore. It didn't align with me. So training as a psychodynamics integrative psychotherapist, it's very much

I suppose it started with Freud and looking at our defences, but now it's more of a holistic approach. And that's where I am today. I'm still a registered nurse, but I have worked with Telt on my own, into my own business for the past three years as a psychotherapist in private practice.

Tyson (04:27.266)
So you work with professionals and legal professionals and I wonder why, I guess, why did you choose that particular clientele? And then what do you see that professionals and legal professionals in particular, since this is a legal podcast, what do you see about our profession that maybe you don't see in other professions?

Maria (04:36.14)
Mm.

Maria (04:50.126)
The reason I always was drawn, I have a huge interest in law, always had, I have a lot of friends and colleagues who are who are solicitors or lawyers as we speak, call them here. But they would always really listen to what I was speaking about if we were talking about anxiety or talking about how stress and burnout shows up in the workplace. They would always talk to me, God, we need this work.

We need this work. So my colleagues, myself, they're stressed out, but we don't know where to stop and take a look at that. So I went into researching this and spoke to a few people and I saw the research that was out there. So I could see the gap and I could see the skills I have in terms of bringing, in particular, the psychotherapy approach and skills to the lawyer, lawyer law firms and to individual lawyers. And really, if you take off the hat of the lawyer.

everybody's human underneath us. There's commonalities for sure in terms of maybe personalities and high achieving and striving for perfection in certain ways. But if you bring that back, if we're not connected, if our identity and value is attributed to what we do, then we are moving, we're on shaky ground because we're moving further and further away from who we actually are. And the amount of stress

trauma and burnish that is in the profession and if you look at suicidal ideation, suicide itself and addiction these are all symptoms of something a lot deeper rooted and a lot of our conditioning perfectionism or overworking, overachieving comes from our childhood and how we were conditioned to be a particular way.

And if we grow up in a place where we are not what we call our true selves and we're striving to base our value on what we do, then we are more open and susceptible to having deeper issues, mental health-wise, as we go on. Because you're not going to realise when you're in the heights of stress, you can't make decisions like we would if we were in a more balanced state.

Maria (07:15.614)
and the legal profession, the nature of the work, you're always going to be looking at the negative side, you're gonna have to be forecasting the future, looking at the side that most people don't look at, you're already in high anxiety all the time. So that fight or flight is going to impact your nervous system and it's going to have you operating in a place where perception and ability to make decisions change, change.

Jim (07:45.462)
Thanks Maria and speaking of trauma, I wanted to talk a little bit about trauma. I was, I spoke at one of our conferences a few years ago about the fact that I had been molested by a priest when I was a kid and sort of how I carried that with me and how it took a long time for me to figure that out. And I was surprised by the number of lawyers who've reached out to me to talk to me about their own either sexual trauma or some other kind of trauma and

Maria (07:58.074)
Well.

Maria (08:09.443)
Hmm.

Jim (08:10.962)
And then I happened to read a wonderful book, a very hard book to read called The Body Keeps the Score last year. And I'm just struck by how damaged people are. And a lot of us are just walking around, especially lawyers with these battle armors on that are really just protecting these really sort of damaged, hurt souls.

Maria (08:16.602)
Mm-hmm.

Maria (08:25.175)
Yeah.

Maria (08:37.154)
Yeah, yeah. And that's, thank you for sharing that, Jim. And it's deeply traumatic. You know, any abuse of any nature is deeply traumatic. And when it happens in childhood, it's even more horrendous because you're right, we build up a protection around ourselves. I always think of it as like a scaffolding. So we're still inside, but we're operating it. Scaffolding is keeping us up and keeping us functioning.

But it's not steady. It's that again, it comes back to that ground that is unsteady. So when you're carrying shame and shame is one of the deepest root of outcomes of trauma, if you want to look at it that way, guilt tells us I've done something wrong, but shame ultimately tells us I am wrong. There is something profoundly wrong with me. And in childhood, if you look at like Body Keeps Scores is a brilliant example of trauma work.

If you look at Gabor Amati's work and what he talks about in terms of trauma, it's not necessarily what happens to you. It's whether you're left alone with that trauma. So if you didn't have an adult or somebody around or anybody that hasn't to make sense of that incident, to make sense of what happened, then it can be more accepted. It's easier to integrate it and it's easier to get the support. But when you're left alone, children in particular make up stories. We make up stories about ourselves as we grow.

and it comes back down to safety and connection and how safe do we feel within our bodies because we've most of us and again back to the busy lives within law firms and individual lawyers or in-house wherever they're working it's such a fast pace it suits to leave your body to not be connected with the body to be cognitively thinking all the time forecasting and working in the future.

because it can be easier, it's familiar, it's familiar to lead the system. So it doesn't surprise me that you had a lot of people contact you with similar stories and that comes back to me speaking that we take off our hats, it doesn't matter what we do, we are human at the base of everything. Well that's what makes us the same, that's what connects us all, it doesn't matter what hat we wear.

Maria (11:02.122)
And because we attach so much to what we do, we forget that there's actually someone else in there. We're actually individuals behind it all. You know, and I remember listening to your podcast, that's where I've been listening to you a while, but it was back in May when you had the podcast about the lawyer who had died by suicide. It was in the Facebook group and so he had been disparaged and somebody put up a statement and thinking about the shame that…

you know that impulsivity. Impulsivity I think has been a key piece that research I know now identifies but if we look historically at mental health or mental illness they have attached suicide directly just to depression so I feel and believe deeply that we've missed out on many years of impulsive suicides due to trauma and due to the deep shame that people carry that they

Maria (11:59.254)
or to speak about or have a safe connection, understand what safety is, understand what it means to actually connect with somebody who wants to hear. Because, and as you mentioned there, Jim, in your childhood, as adults, my role with anybody that comes into therapy or the groups I support in law firms in terms of understanding vicarious trauma, once you have a safe space where people hear you.

and it's validated and those younger parts are validated, everything can change. And if I didn't experience that and didn't believe that, it would be a really horrible profession for me to be in because there'd be no hope. So I hold hope for people when they can't hold it. There's a brilliant, one of the most healing and transformative trauma approaches that I use is internal family systems. I'm not sure if…

if you've heard about it. I was in Santa Barbara, I presented last month at a legal summit, the Legal Operator Summit in Santa Barbara, on interpersonal relationships and trauma and how it impacts how we show up in our relationships today. And I spoke a lot about internal family systems and was really surprised and loved the fact that a good few people had heard about it. But for me,

This is where the medical profession have gone wrong in medicalising us as humans to such a point that it's just the symptoms, as I said earlier, whereas IFS is about, well, let's not worry about pathologising somebody. Let's actually take them. We can acknowledge that you have a diagnosis. Let's just park it and let's see what's underneath that. Where did this begin? Let's work backwards. Let's come up.

Let's work together to figure this out. So there's a curiosity, there's a bit of detective work, but the framework in itself talks about our self energy. So that's the part in us that we're all born with. So they be born perfect. They have that soul energy, you can call it, if the best be spirituality, but it's your essence. It's our course of where we're good humans, right? As we grow up, depending on our families and what.

Maria (14:17.85)
trauma they carry and how they parent us and what they believe or don't believe about us, whether we're good or bad, we internalize all this. And in order to stay safe and connected with our parents or caregivers, whoever raised us, we have to conform to what they want. So if, say, if I don't agree with shouting and I tell my children not to get angry and don't shout, they're going to shut that down in themselves. Right. So they're going to repress that anger because

they have to stay connected to me no matter what I do. I'm their survival link, I'm their link to survival. And as they grow up then, they'll shut out anger. So they may then lack boundaries, not know how to put boundaries in with people. They don't want to make anybody angry. So they're just little examples, but that's part of how then we're conditioned. But in IFS it talks about that self-energy. It never leaves us, it's undamaged. And it's true to us.

But in order to show up safe in the world or in our workplaces, we have to, with what Freud would have called defences, we bring in our managers. So again, the managers can be anxiety. Anxiety is a manager because as long as we're anxious and worrying, we don't have to connect with the feeling. Right, so the managers protect our younger selves, which are the exiles. And the exiles are the vulnerable parts in us. So all of us here today are adults.

But we all were one, two, three, four, eight, five, eight, six. We all have all these years behind us where at times things may have happened, right? On different levels, different scales to different people. But if we didn't get the support to understand and process that, then we had to push it down. Right? And repress it. But the energy of that emotion. So say if it was anger, say if it was upset, if it was whatever feeling shame.

There's huge energy in that, in those emotions being pushed down. So emotions are energy and they need to, what's the word I always hope is, they need to complete their energetic cycle. So it's like stopping somebody mid-yawn, you know? It's awful, right? Except it's on a way bigger scale, of course. So we've, these were press parts in ourselves and how we keep them pushed down is these managers. So the managers might be.

Maria (16:42.106)
people pleasing, no boundaries, overworking, only thinking, don't deal with feelings. So our managers are working hard every day. They're important to us in order for us to survive every day. But we also then have, if our managers don't work, we have what's called firefighters. So our firefighters are where a lot of people in high functioning professions, in high achieving professions,

are. So that can be addiction. It can be addiction to whatever it is. It can be addiction to work. It can be addiction to alcohol, drugs, whatever it is to numb. So the firefighters are numbers. And also suicidal ideation is a firefighter, but so is suicide. So suicide obviously is the ultimate get out. These are the first responders that come into your life and say, we can't deal with these emotions. We need to protect you in some way. So it comes back to

But in the work with IFS, why it's so powerful is you learn to connect with your self energy. So that part of you that is undamaged inside, that wasn't conditioned, that can't be conditioned. And it allows you have a deep compassion for the younger parts of you, the younger you that took on these beliefs about yourself, that you weren't good enough or you had to change to be cared about or to be loved. And

Ultimately, that brings those parts back into the fold and you can then be more in line with who you actually are authentically. And it really bothers me when workplaces talk about show up authentically. The reality is most of us don't know who we are authentically because we've been operating out of a system, a conditioned system for most of our lives. And even if and I can imagine even if some people are listening to this and thinking that's absolutely not me.

It is the case for most of us. Right, so just ask yourself, that's OK if that's how you feel, but ask yourself, is it working? Are my relationships working? Am I OK in my relationships outside of work? You know, might be great in work, but what's happening outside of it? Yeah.

Tyson (18:56.394)
So this is a good segue because I saw a really interesting ad. It was posted on X the other day. And it was a two-minute ad, which is pretty long. And it's actually at a soccer match. And the entire ad is centered on two guys that are sitting in the stands.

And the guy on the left is, he kind of looks down all the time and it goes through multiple games, sometimes good games and bad games. The guy on the right side, he's always cheering and he's up, he's smiling. The other guy is always seated and just sitting there and always not quite a scowl on his face but is not quite looking very happy. And then at the end, it shows an empty chair on the right side. And then the guy on the left side takes a scarf and puts it on the chair and it's just

Maria (19:17.539)
Hmm.

Tyson (19:44.638)
to symbolize that guy is gone. And then there's a message about basically you never know about what's going on in the inside based on what's on the outside. So can you talk a little bit about that and maybe give us some tools we can use to identify things going on with other people that maybe we need to ask a couple extra questions and see if we need to reach out to help them out.

Maria (19:47.514)
Mm-hmm.

Maria (20:11.076)
The first thing that I would say to that in response to that is as adults we all have responsibility obviously to look after ourselves and we will never, no matter what we do, ever know what's going on in somebody else's mind and that is the reality of the situation.

authentically as you can, so with genuine interest and care to somebody. If you notice a change in somebody and you're wondering, God, I haven't heard from that person. It's very difficult if you don't know somebody to just show up and expect to be able to ask these questions. But if you do know somebody and they've changed or they've gone quieter, something's happening. So maybe just genuinely asking them.

I've noticed you've been quiet or naming what you see, naming what you're seeing. And I wonder if I can do anything to help or if there's anything going on that I can support you with. It's getting the conversations started. It's difficult. I believe this is a difficult thing to do in work situations because especially at the moment, people, most people are in fight or flight. They're

they're really, really stressed. So they're worried that if they do bring this up, the stigma is still out there, the stigma is still huge. But going back to it, it's showing up and asking them, letting them know that you're there, opening up the conversations, having people in to genuinely talk about this work and let them know that it actually is okay to speak, but it's not always safe to speak to everybody. You know, it just isn't.

Jim (21:57.55)
It seems to me that maybe five years ago, you heard a lot more about depression than anxiety. But to me, maybe before COVID or right around COVID, it seems like anxiety got in the driver's seat when it comes to lawyers especially. But like, we just talk to people all the time who have some pretty debilitating anxiety. And can you talk about sort of the signs of anxiety or how anxiety might be ruling somebody's life?

Maria (22:02.412)
Mm.

Maria (22:11.469)
me.

Maria (22:24.278)
Mm. Anxiety has absolutely just the amount of people that are coming and looking for support for anxiety has absolutely escalated over the last number of years. And it's really anxiety is your nervous system has gone into fight or flight overdrive. Right. So we have a nervous system that when it's in its parasympathetic state, which we all want, that's kind of rest, digest, relaxed.

We can make decisions, we're clear minded. That's where we want to be. We can move in and out of that, right, within our window of tolerance. So we all have a different tolerance. Our nervous systems are set up very differently, depending again on the nervous system of where we grew up. So if we grew up in a home where the nervous system of the home was very hot, was highly anxious, highly worried all the time, highly concerning, or highly judgmental, we're going to have picked that up.

This is just the way it is. So we're going to all be primed to either go into our sympathetic nervous system, which is quite a flight of anxiety, which is worry or disconnection from our feeling, or others will shut down. And go in, shut down no mouth from the feelings and detach. Right. So the anxiety is going to show up, not being able to rest, not being able to stop.

not being able to say no. And then that is very much linked a lot of the time at the moment with addiction. So high anxiety throughout the day, come home and no. So asking yourself, am I escaping from something? So anxiety is telling you something. Anxiety is telling you that there is an emotion underneath that, that you are running away from, not consciously. This is all a subconscious protection.

So anxiety is a protection. It's an inhibitory emotion that protects us from something else deeper. And those emotions are usually the likes of guilt, the likes of fear, sadness, that are the big ones that are difficult to experience. I don't know if that answers it. I'm hoping to come from it from a different angle, maybe, as just, rather than just naming what anxiety is or the symptoms of it, because I think we always hear that it's a disorder and that's…

Maria (24:48.578)
That's all it is. But it's so much more than that. It's a protective, it's protection to our system. If we're worrying about the future, then we don't have to connect with our deeper feelings. And most of us as humans nowadays have never learned to connect with our feelings or we've been told it's not okay to show emotions. And this is particularly true for men.

Tyson (25:13.442)
Yeah, I would 100% agree with that, especially where I grew up. That's, you know, boys don't crack it off a thing. You rub dirt on it and all that drink water. But Maria, this has been, I think, extremely valuable information. And I really appreciate it. I wish we had more time to chat, but we are up against the time. So I do want to start to wrap things up before I do. And it's also really early there. So it's 630 year time. So we'll get you back to your kiddos. But before we wrap things up, I want to make sure that people

Maria (25:18.41)
Yeah.

Tyson (25:43.396)
reach out to you if they want to get a hold of you. So how do they reach out to you and get a hold of you if they need to?

Maria (25:49.458)
The best place at the minute, because I have to update my website, is Maria Parker on LinkedIn. It's on LinkedIn, I'm there and I am definitely showing up more. So, hoping that will bring… But I talk a lot about IFS and trauma in particular in the legal profession there. So, they can direct message me or maria at insighttherapy.ie.

Tyson (26:17.45)
Very cool. Thank you, Maria. All right. I am going to wrap things up. If you want to join us in the big Facebook group, we'd love to have you join us there. There's a lot of great information being shared always. If you want to join us in the Guild, go to maxlawguild.com where we have some just awesome rock stars there. We had a great time in Miami at our most recent Mastermind. We're going to be in Vegas next year, North Carolina. I can't remember all the different places, but we'll be in different cities next year. So join us in the Guild, Max Law.

And while you're listening to the rest of this episode, if you got anything valuable from this episode, hopefully you did, and I think you probably did, give us a five-star review. That would be fantastic. We would really appreciate it. Jimmy, what is your hack of the week?

Jim (27:04.77)
Read a great book, very quickly, I read it in about a week. It's the new book called Going Infinite by Michael Lewis. It's all about Sam Bankman Fried and the rise and fall of crypto and…

Tyson (27:16.5)
You read that book fast, man. Holy crap.

Jim (27:18.986)
Yeah, it just came out. I got it right away. I do audio and reading, so I get through it pretty quickly because otherwise my attention goes elsewhere. But it was great. A lot of good lessons, especially about paying attention to the rules and about the importance of following procedures. I think anybody would really enjoy it. I think Michael Lewis is sort of a fanboy of Sam Bankman Fried, so I think it's a little bit soft. But the book itself was pretty insightful.

Tyson (27:46.214)
Interesting. Okay, very good. I've not read it yet, so I'm going to check it out. Maria, we always ask our guests to give a tip or a hack of the week. It could be a book, it could be a podcast, it could be a quote, you name it. What do you have for us?

Maria (28:02.154)
So I would love for everybody to, if they're interested in internal family systems, to look at the book No Bad Parts by Dr. Richard Schwartz. That's really, really brilliant book. And another tip is tapping for anxiety. So you spoke about anxiety and I was talking about the nervous system and with the vagus nerve running through our body from our head down to our gut and tapping is, there are certain tapping exercises that…

If you do them and you can Google them, you'll get them on YouTube tapping for anxiety. I can guarantee you within five minutes, you will start to regulate your nervous system and feel calmer.

Tyson (28:42.854)
I like that. Really cool. Interesting. That's a really practical tip. Perfect. Thank you so much. And then for my tip of the week, mine's completely different. If Canva has a new feature or a new-ish feature, it's new to me. They had the docs to decks, but now they've got the Meet Magic Studio. So it's called the Magic Studio, where it will create things for you. You tell it what you want and it will create it for you, which is really, really cool. And I've tested it out.

It's good sometimes, it's bad sometimes, but it's using AI to make the things that you need. So check it out, canva.com. It's really cool. Maria, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. I think our members and our listeners are going to get a ton out of this. So thank you so much.

Maria (29:22.445)
Thank you.

Maria (29:27.29)
You're so welcome. Thank you both. Thank you.

Jim (29:30.766)
Thanks Maria.

Tyson (29:30.88)
You butt.

Maria (29:32.046)
Thanks a million.

Jim (29:33.442)
See ya.

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE

Are you looking for ways to begin the New Year the right way? In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer podcast, Tyson shares three tips for lawyers to start 2024 on a positive note. 

It is common for people to have New Year’s resolutions. Whether it be creating a good workout routine, eating healthier or saving more money, it is a great way to hold yourself accountable and begin working on a goal. Tyson shares a few things lawyers can do to elevate their practice. The first thing is to develop a new routine that is unique. This could be spending 5 minutes every morning meditating, ending the night with writing in a gratitude journal or taking nature walks during your lunch break. It is all about creating a healthy habit.

The second tip is to learn a new skill that is unrelated to law, which helps decompress and move yourself away from thinking about work all the time. Whether it be pottery, painting or coding, these new skills can help with stimulating your brain and sparking creativity in a different way. The third tip is to plan a day for a random act of kindness. This is a great way to give back to someone and pay it forward. Random acts of kindness are really about spreading positivity to others and it can have an impact in a way you will never imagine.

Take a listen!

Episode Highlights:

  • 1:08 Start a unique routine before the new year
  • 2:05 Pick up something completely unrelated to your law practice
  • 3:51 Dedicate a day to performing random acts of kindness

Resources:

Transcripts: 3 Things You Could Do Before the Start of 2024

Tyson (00:08.258)
Hey, it's Tyson. Welcome back to another Bite-sized episode aimed at elevating your practice. This week, I want to talk about three things you can do before the start of 2024, so that you can get things started on the right foot. Before I dive in though, I want to remind you to check out our Maximum Lawyer and Minimum Time, which is a really unique roadmap that you're not going to get with a lot of these other people that are giving you all this.

Wonderful advice from people that have never run a law practice, frankly. And Jim and I have really dissected what has worked for us, what has worked for many of our guests over years, and we put it into maximum learning time. For everyone that's in the Guild, you get it for free, you get the whole thing for free. We're going to give you stage one absolutely free just for listening. Just text me stage one at 314-501-9260, and we'll send it out to you right away. Remember stage one.

314-501-9260, just text that to me and you'll get it. All right, so I want to talk about these three things. This is going to be a fairly quick episode, but on this one, I just want you to take action. Okay. Take one of these, take one of the three things and take action. That's all I want you to do. So here's the first idea for you, and that's develop a new routine. Okay. So start a new unique, easy for me to say, start a unique routine before the new year.

like practicing gratitude every morning or taking a daily walk in nature, whatever it may be, but we want to start developing a healthy habit, whatever that thing is. So if you, let's say you want to stop eating so much sugar. Okay, so let's figure out what that routine is for you to stop consuming as much sugar. It doesn't mean you have to get rid of sugar completely. It's, you can just start to minimize it. Think about what that thing is that you're gonna start doing.

to help you with that routine. Maybe you want to stop eating after eight o'clock. So you're maybe put on a couple extra pounds and you don't want to do, I'm not a big fan of New Year's resolutions, but maybe you want to, for the new year, you want to have a healthier body in 2024. Maybe one of those things is that I'm not going to eat after 8 p.m. or I'm not going to eat after 7 p.m. There's things like that, that you can start to build into your regular routine. That's going to…

Tyson (02:32.422)
start you off on the right foot for 2024. All right, so let's get to the second one. This is my favorite. Learn a new skill unrelated to law. So pick up something that's completely unrelated to your law practice like pottery, could be coding. One of our receptionist actually, she wants to learn coding. She's been learning coding. I think it's pretty cool. Could be a new language.

I started to learn Hindu. I've actually put it on the back burner for a little bit, but just because we've got so much going on with the firm that I put it on the back burner just a little bit, but things like this can really stimulate your brain in new ways and spark creativity. There's a lot of really cool studies about this that you can read up on if you want to, but I'm just telling you, there's a lot of studies on it that help stimulate your brain by picking up something new, learning something new. I think that there's a lot of-

great things that can come from that. So give that a try. And then number three, this is probably number two on my list when it comes to my favorites, but plan a random act of kindness day. And there is something that we do with our kids. You may have heard me talk about on the podcast before, but we do the three cards on Adventure Sunday. We call Sundays Adventure Sunday and we've got three cards. We have a stack of big cards and they pick three. So each of the kids picks a card.

and they don't get to see them, they don't see what's on the other side, and then they pick one of the three cards, or actually my wife does, Amy does. So the kids pick and then she picks one of the three, and then we get to do that thing. One of the things that's on the other side of one of those cards in that big stack is, everyone goes and does a random act of kindness. You don't have to do it in the same way we do, but by the way, that card's not being picked yet. It's a big stack of cards, but I can't wait for that one to come up because it really does excite me. But…

You can plan a day of just doing random acts of kindness. And I think that this is cool because in 75 hard, once you get to phase three, one of the things you have to do for the 30 days in phase three, if I'm remembering correctly, I'm pretty sure it's phase three, that because I couldn't wait to get to this part, because I think it's cool, is you have to do random act of kindness. It's really cool to force your brain to think, okay, when am I going to do my random act of kindness? And just imagine doing your day like that every day. It's kind of cool. But plan that day and…

Tyson (04:53.318)
you dedicate that day to performing random acts of kindness. And maybe you set a goal for doing five random acts of kindness. I think that's pretty cool. But it's a really a simple way of paying for someone's coffee. It could be writing a thank you note, but it's a simple way of really paying it forward, which I think is pretty cool. And you can really have a positive impact on someone's life by doing this. All right. And then… Sorry, I have to edit this part.

All right, so that's all I have for this episode. I wanna challenge you to pick one of these three to do by the end of December. And if you do, I promise it's gonna help you kickstart your way into 2024 with a renewed sense of purpose and enthusiasm for your practice. So make these last days of the year count in a meaningful way. As a reminder, if you have something you want me to cover on the Saturday show, shoot me a text and I'll try to cover it. If I can, we get a lot of great ideas all the time.

and I will get to them as quickly as I can. So keep them coming. Just text me 314-501-9260 and I'll get to it if I can. Until next week, remember that consistent action is the blueprint that turns your goals into reality. Take care.

Are you a business owner who struggles with perfection? In this episode, Becca Eberhart, CEO at Maximum Lawyer, discusses the challenges of the all-or-nothing mentality in entrepreneurship. 

The all-or-nothing mentality can be a double edged sword for a lot of people. On one hand, it can lead to bold moves but on the other, it can lead to inaction. Becca uses this to talk about effective business planning. If you wait for everything to be perfect when doing a project or planning for next year’s budget, there can be missed opportunities. It is important to have a clear plan but be open to changes as a business evolves and grows.

Engaging in an all-or-nothing mindset can lead to missing out on some things. One thing is missed opportunities. For example, if you were to only focus on the highest priced hiring coach for your business, you could overlook other individuals who bring something to the table that you didn't think you would need. The highest price tag doesn't always mean quality. Another thing is paralysis by analysis. If you are focused on making the perfect choice, you could become indecisive and inactive because you are waiting for the right thing to come along. Inflexibility is another issue as sticking to one thing or staying on one path can lead to a business becoming stagnant and unfit for growth.

If you choose to avoid an all-or-nothing mindset, there are some things that can go well. First is reduced stress as a business owner. With a flexible way of doing business, you can avoid the need for perfection and do things that work for you. Another thing is the ability to innovate. Being open to new ideas and creativity will lead to a business that is always evolving and trying new things. With this, people will see a business that is changing as their consumers do.

Learn about how to avoid the all-or-nothing approach with Becca!

Episode Highlights:

  • 1:20 Exploring the mindset of hiring coaches
  • 2:38 The drawbacks of fixating on making the perfect choice and becoming indecisive
  • 3:57 The benefits of avoiding an all-or-nothing mindset

Resources:

Transcripts: Navigating the All-or-Nothing Mindset in Coaching and Business

Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson metrics. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:00:24) - Welcome back to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. I'm Becca Eberhardt, CEO at Maximum Lawyer, and today we're talking about having the all or nothing mentality that many entrepreneurs struggle with. The all or nothing mindset can be a double edged sword. On one hand, it can push you to take bold actions and make big investments. On the other hand, it can paralyze you into inaction. Today, we're going to explore this mindset in the context of hiring coaches, planning out your business, and taking action in your firm. Let's start with the scenario of hiring a coach. Some entrepreneurs believe that if they're going to invest in a coach, it has to be the best, the most expensive, the one with the highest reputation. They see it as an all or nothing choice. But is this mindset productive? While it's natural to want the best guidance possible, this mindset can sometimes lead to overlooking valuable opportunities.

Speaker 2 (00:01:20) - The most expensive coach might not always be the best fit for your specific needs. It's important to find a coach who resonates with your goals and can provide you with the right guidance, even if they don't come with the highest price tag. The same goes for business planning, pivoting or niching down. Waiting until everything is perfectly mapped out can lead to missed opportunities and keep you from ever going out on your own altogether. It's important to strike a balance between having a clear direction and being adaptable to changes. As your business evolves, it's okay to seek out high quality coaches and to plan your business strategies thoughtfully. However, don't let the fear of not achieving perfection hold you back from making progress. Embrace the idea that small steps in the right direction can lead to remarkable outcomes over time. While it might feel like you're waiting for the best possible choice to work for you, there's a lot you might be missing out on while engaging in an all or nothing mindset. The first is missed opportunities. By fixating on only the highest price or most prestigious options, you may overlook more practical and accessible choices that could be just as effective or even better suited for you.

Speaker 2 (00:02:38) - Next, we have paralysis by analysis. Business owners can become so focused on making the perfect choice that they become indecisive and fail to take any action. This inaction can stall your business growth and prevent you from moving forward. Next, we have inflexibility. As the business landscape evolves, the ability to adapt and pivot is crucial. Sticking rigidly to a single path or strategy can lead to stagnation and make it difficult to respond to changing market conditions or emerging opportunities. Next, there's overlooking hidden gems. Valuable resources, ideas or potential. Collaborations often come from unexpected places. An all or nothing mindset may cause you to overlook these hidden gems because they don't fit within your rigid criteria. This can deprive your business of innovative solutions and creative partnerships. Next, we have limited learning and growth. Entrepreneurship is a journey of continuous learning and growth. This mindset can stifle your personal and professional development by discouraging you from taking calculated risks, experimenting and learning from your mistakes. It's often through these experiences that the most significant lessons are learned.

Speaker 2 (00:03:57) - Consciously avoiding an all or nothing mindset in your entrepreneurial journey has many benefits that can significantly enhance your success, personal growth, and overall well-being. Let's dive into those. First, there's reduced stress and anxiety. By adopting a more flexible mindset, you can alleviate the pressure to achieve perfection and make the best choice at every turn. This reduction in stress allows you to approach challenges with a clear and more focused mind. Next, you'll embrace adaptability. Business environments are constantly evolving and adaptability is a key to success. Overcoming the all or nothing mentality enables you to be more adaptable. You can pivot when necessary, respond to changing market conditions, and seize new opportunities that may have been missed with a rigid mindset. Next, you'll have improved innovation and creativity by being open to different possibilities. You'll encourage creative thinking and the exploration of new ideas. This fosters an environment of innovation, which is often the driver of business growth and your competitive advantage. You'll also see greater resilience and tenacity. You become more adept at facing setbacks and continuing to move forward.

Speaker 2 (00:05:18) - As you understand that not every decision has to be flawless to lead to success. And finally. Maintain sustainable growth. Sustainable growth is often the result of measured, balanced and adaptable strategies. An all or nothing approach can lead to unsustainable, erratic growth that is challenging to maintain. Avoiding this mindset promotes a steadier, more sustainable path to success. In short, avoiding the all or nothing mindset in your entrepreneurial journey offers many benefits, including reduced stress, improved decision making, adaptability, increased creativity, and resilience. It allows you to grow your firm consistently, leading to better results over time. That's it for today's episode of the Maximum Lawyer podcast.

Speaker 1 (00:06:10) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Stay in contact with your host and to access more content. Go to Maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE

Are you a lawyer who is struggling with marketing their business or themselves? In this episode, Jim and Tyson welcome guest Dave Dee, a professional magician turned marketing and sales expert. He provides some advice on how lawyers can become better salespeople and improve their marketing strategies.

Dave talks about the importance of knowing how to be a master salesperson just as much as knowing your craft. Being good at what you do is not a competitive advantage until the client is working with you. This means you need to reel the client in with marketing in order to get them on board and actually begin using your skills in law. Dave suggests lawyers really take the time to learn about effective marketing strategies to get clients and make money.

Jim, Tyson and Dave discuss the common mistakes lawyers make when it comes to marketing themselves. One mistake is simply doing generic marketing that everyone else in the industry is doing. A lot of lawyers will have the same Facebook ads with the same slogan, fonts and messaging. Dave says that this similar marketing among lawyers makes them look like a commodity. What this does is make the public see all lawyers as operating the same which means they will go with the lawyer charging less money for services. Another issue Dave talks about is not attracting the right prospects. It is important as a lawyer to not focus on getting the most leads but getting the most qualified leads. Dave also notes that lawyers are not only selling their services but themselves, which is why public speaking is crucial to becoming successful in the legal field.

Dave talks through how to deliver a great presentation. It is important to not over deliver information, which is what a lot of people (not just lawyers) do when speaking to an audience and potential clients. This does a few things. Over delivering can cause an audience to feel overwhelmed with information because there is a lot to process and so much jargon. It can also cause audiences to believe they can take on the task themselves since they have all the information. As a lawyer, you want to give enough information to where someone understands what you do and will come to you to figure out the rest. 

Having a Call to Action at the end of a presentation is really what gets people to decide if they want to reach out to you. It is an important piece of a presentation and can really make or break the outcome. A Call to Action can be a few things. It can be telling the audience to call and set up an appointment, directing people to fill out a form, downloading your report on what you do as a lawyer and collecting the audience’s contact information to send out a mass email.

Storytelling is another important aspect of presenting to potential clients. A great way to do this is weave in real stories. As lawyers, there are a million and one stories for almost every scenario due to the different types of cases and people that walk in the door. Wherever there is a connection between a case and a concept or theme in a presentation, tell that story. This will keep people engaged and bring a sense of reality into an otherwise “boring” legal presentation. 

Take a listen to learn more about effective marketing!

Jim's Hack: Read Dan Kennedy's book, “The No BS Ruthless Management of People and Profits”, which provides those who are business owners and leaders with tips on not being so nice and soft.

Dave’s Tip: Take the Take Charge of Your Life program by Jim Rohn, which really changed Dave’s perspective on life.

Tyson's Tip: Use Cloud Prompter, which is a teleprompter and Mac app for making videos.

Episode Highlights:

  • 4:09 The importance of being a master marketer and salesperson
  • 9:35 Common mistakes lawyers make in their marketing
  • 15:34 Three pieces of information in a presentation
  • 24:45 The importance of having a Call to Action discussion
  • 30:31 The significance of storytelling in sales and marketing

Resources:

Transcripts: How Can Lawyers Stand Out in a Crowded Market with Dave Dee

Dave Dee (00:02.666)
for this. Oh, okay. I was like, Oh, I see actual recording is a higher quality. Got it. Got it. Okay, perfect.

Tyson (00:03.771)
Yeah, I think that's why.

Jimbo (00:12.146)
Awesome, great. We'll get started. Welcome back to the Maximal Lawyer Podcast. I'm Jim Hacking.

Tyson (00:19.627)
And I'm Tyson Mutrix. What's up, Jimmy?

Jimbo (00:22.838)
Tyson, I'm so excited for our guest today. I've been thinking about this for months. I was sort of surprised when he agreed to come on the show. So I'm very happy to introduce him. So for a little bit of backstory, the Maximum Lawyer podcast began eight years ago, a little bit after a info summit that GKIC held in St. Louis, Missouri. Dave D was there and he is our guest today. Dave, welcome to the show.

Dave Dee (00:48.166)
Hey, thank you guys for having me. I'm really honored and I appreciate it.

Tyson (00:52.787)
So Dave, I'm hoping that most of our listeners know who you are, but will you… I would really… I think it would be helpful for people if they heard your journey and a little bit about your story and how you became who you are. Like your presentation at GKIC was my favorite and I'll ask you some questions about that a little bit, but it was kind of really cool. But yeah, will you talk about your journey and your story?

Dave Dee (01:09.43)
Thank you.

Dave Dee (01:16.182)
Sure, since we don't have a lot of time, I won't tell the entire story. We'll just start when I was eight years old and then we'll move up from there going every year from there forward. No, but actually my journey did start when I was eight years old because like a lot of boys and some girls, but mostly boys at that time, my grandmother gave me a little magic set and I fell in love with magic and I knew when I was about eight, nine, 10 that I wanted to grow up and be a professional magician.

And my parents thought that was kind of cute when I was eight. But when I was 18, they didn't think it was so cute anymore. Right? And so I got a lot of, you know, that's not practical. You need to get a real job. You need to work for a company, get the gold watch, all that kind of stuff. But I had this passion, real passion, burning passion to be an entertainer.

I took a very traditional route. I went to UMass Amherst, graduated with a degree in communication, got a job in radio advertising sales. I was probably, it's funny because I teach sales training now and a lot to lawyers, both one to one and one to many, which we can talk about. And I was probably the worst radio advertising salesperson on the planet. I mean, it was bad. My training consisted of the sales manager literally slapping me on the back and saying, go out there and get them killer.

I mean, really, that was it. And I was never really into it because I still had this passion. And so I eventually moved out of my hometown from Springfield, Mass to Atlanta and took a job as a demonstrator at a executive magic store. So these were not like the typical magic stores you're thinking of, these were in luxury hotels. And basically what my job was to sell overpriced magic tricks to unsuspecting conventionaires.

But the reason that this is important is that it really got me up and learning how to sell one to many, how to gather a crowd, learn a script, do a demonstration and start selling. And I quickly became the number one salesperson in the company. And but I still wasn't living my passion. So I had to make a decision at one point.

Dave Dee (03:38.414)
what was I gonna do? Was I gonna actually live out my dream or was I just gonna keep doing this and working for somebody else? And so that decision was made for me because I was fired from that job. The owner discovered I had entrepreneurial tendencies and so, but now I didn't have a gig, right? And I was only doing about three shows a month and I…

These weren't big David Copperfield like productions. These were small shows, nowhere near enough to make money. And then I went to an event and I saw a guy by the name of Dan Kennedy speak and he's the K in GKIC that you mentioned earlier. And he said something which really had a profound effect on me and it was this. And this really applies to any business, right? And here's what it was.

that it's more important to be a master marketer and a master salesperson than it is to be a master of your craft. Now, he wasn't saying that you shouldn't be good at what you do, but being good at what you do is not a competitive advantage until the client is working with you. And so that really changed my mind shift from, hey, I just got to get really good because we're all taught, right? In law school,

We're not going over how to run a business. We're taught how to be good lawyers and so I Really focused in on the marketing and I invested in courses and I went to trainings and spent money. I really didn't have But and I tried a lot of different things as one of my favorite speakers The late great Jim Rohn said and Tony Robbins is often given credit for this, but it's actually Jim Rohn's I took massive action

And most of the stuff that I did didn't work and most of the marketing that I did wasn't very good But I just kept doing it and I kept doing a lot of it And within 90 days I went from doing three shows a month to averaging 25 shows a month So from three to 25, so if everyone who's watching this can do that math, that's over an 800 increase So I want you to imagine that happened in your in your law practice

Dave Dee (05:53.442)
And so everything changed for me. My fourth month I did 57 shows. And so my life completely changed. Everything, I mean, within a year I paid off $80,000 in debt I had accumulated. I bought a new house, I bought a new car. I was making six figures as a magician back in the 90s. Now, that may not be impressive to folks, but there's not a lot of magicians who are doing six figures.

And then I started getting invited to speak on stages to tell my story like I'm telling it now. And what happened as a result of that smart business owners, including my very first client, who was an attorney by the way, came up to me and said, can you help me with my practice? Because this and I say that they're smart because they understood that marketing is marketing and marketing is selling is selling is selling.

I was selling a professional service just like an attorney sells a professional service. Mine just happened to be entertainment. I needed to attract leads. I needed to have a meeting and close the sale. I had to perform the service. I needed to get referrals. It was just a different type of service business. And so that's what actually got me going and started working with clients in diverse businesses, mostly in the service business.

a ton of attorneys who I actually really, really enjoy working with. I think they're fantastic and they provide such a great service and no one has really taught them the marketing piece of this or the selling piece of it and or they're teaching really outdated methodologies which nobody likes to use. So you know, high pressure closing and manipulative stuff when none of that is necessary. And so that's

That's really what got me here. Then I started speaking on stages and then I learned that, hey, you gotta sell something on these stages when you're invited to these entrepreneurial conferences. The first time I did it, I bombed, right? Because I was an entertainer, so I thought, this is gonna be easy, I'm on stage all of the time. And I quickly learned that there was a big difference between making an audience laugh, getting them to clap, getting a standing ovation, and getting them to take out their credit card.

Dave Dee (08:16.546)
And so I did the same process as I did as a magician. I dove in, I invested money, I went to courses, I studied, I studied, I studied, and I got really good at speaking to sell. And so there's two things now that I teach professional services, folks. Number one is how to get up in front of a group, whether that's a group on a webinar online or whether it's in person at a seminar or a dinner.

presentation or something like that and speak, deliver good information, but then get the qualified prospects to schedule appointments. Then the second piece of that is, okay, we've got the appointment. Now how do we actually close that sale so the prospect becomes a client. And that's what leads us here today.

Jimbo (09:06.282)
I feel really lucky to have heard even more detail of your story. For those of you who have the opportunity, Dave, it's a very dramatic story when Dave went to that first event with Ann Kennedy, because he basically had no money to even go to the event. So it's remarkable that a lesson for all of us is the need to invest in yourself and to keep, you know…

improving and learning and so that was great. So I appreciate that Dave. So my question for you is, you have worked with a lot of lawyers. Talk to us about traditional lawyer advertising and what most lawyers are getting wrong in their marketing.

Dave Dee (09:45.81)
Well, it's not just lawyers by the way, but since this is a podcast for lawyers, it's really every, anyone who sells a professional service. And the biggest problem is that they look in their marketing is the same as everyone else's marketing. So I can get a, see an ad for a lawyer online on Facebook and it will be basically the same as someone.

Another lawyer I can literally take out the logo change the name and everything's the same So if they're doing an estate planning seminar It looks exactly the same the postcard that I get in the mail looks exactly the same Everything looks the same and the problem with that is and it's a big problem It's becoming a bigger problem is that puts the attorney in the position of being a commodity and now we know

that that's not true. We know just like there are better surgeons, there are better attorneys than other attorneys. But if everybody looks exactly the same and is doing what everyone else in the industry is doing, then the public, the prospect, if everyone looks the same, why wouldn't they think that an attorney is a commodity? And when you become a commodity, the problem is people base their decision on what?

They base their decision on price, the lowest price, right? And it's getting worse for attorneys with all of the online tools and it's going to get worse with AI. So, because they're going to just be able to go and do the stuff themselves. Now, so that's, that's one of the major problems. The other major problem is not attracting the right prospects. So everyone is thinking, well, how many leads can I get?

Right? What can I do to get the most leads? Where I take the opposite approach, I rather have less leads, but have them be really good leads, really qualified leads. Cause there's going to be always a group of people who don't want to do it themselves, right? They want to work with someone who is they, their perception is that they're the ACE, the authority, the celebrity, the expert, right? And so here is a gigantic tip for everyone.

Dave Dee (12:07.998)
You're not selling your services. You're really selling yourself. Because the more affluent somebody is, and the more sophisticated they are, they're more looking for the who, they're buying the who, not just the how, not just the end result. And so that's why I think it is imperative

regardless of what your practice area is that you are doing some form of public speaking Whether that's online or whether that's in person or a combination of both Because that is something that cannot be duplicated Right, because if you do it right and you structure your presentation correctly You're you're selling not just oh I do estate plans

Right? Not, I can just put together a trust for you or whatever it is that you're offering, but rather that you're selling yourself. You're telling your origin story. So if you notice, we started out with my origin story. Now I shorten it and I tighten it, but all attorneys need an origin story. As opposed to, and by the way, once you develop your origin story, that's what you want to have on your about page.

Right? As opposed to what every other lawyer has on their about page that who are using templates that every other lawyer is using. Right? And so when you do that and when you get out in front of people and you're speaking, number one, that formula being the ace, the authority, the celebrity and expert. Well, who gets in front of groups of people and speaks? Authorities, celebrities and experts. That's what they do. Right? So you're automatically put in that category.

Now if you have a book and you speak, now you're in a different ballgame than other attorneys. And so you're going to book appointments and if your presentation is structured correctly and I'm happy to go over how to quickly structure a presentation if that's what you want to do, now you're selling you, people think that you're perceived as the go-to attorney as opposed to just another attorney.

Dave Dee (14:30.458)
selling the same thing as the attorney down the street from them.

Tyson (14:34.639)
So I do want to ask you about the structure of your presentation a little bit, because I think I've seen something on You Do That Before and it's really, really good. So I was scrambling to find my notes from that. I've got books and books and notes, but I'm scrambling to try to find my notes. And so you presented on the ultimate product creation and launch machine. And what I thought was really interesting about it, other than the content, was you moved in with the crowd. You weren't up on the stage. You were moving around.

Dave Dee (14:47.518)
Wow, that's awesome.

Tyson (15:03.899)
but people were wanting to take pictures of your slides so, like so much, but you kept moving so quickly and you were giving so much value. And I was like trying to scramble to take notes and I wanted to take pictures so badly, but you were like standing like right next to me and Jim. So I was like, I didn't want to pull my phone out, but I promise I'm gonna connect the dots in a second. But I have seen where a lot of these estate planning attorneys, they're doing these presentations and they seem to be pretty effective.

Dave Dee (15:17.91)
the

Tyson (15:31.627)
But there's a point where they've got to ask for the credit card, right? They've got to ask for that, that the cell. So is there, is there something to the strategy of you're providing just so much value very, very quickly, um, and, and going, and then finally you make the pitch, is there something to that? Is there a strategy to that whole thing? Um, because I, I'm really curious. I've always wondered that question since I've seen that presentation. So what's the strategy behind it?

Dave Dee (15:48.959)
Yeah.

Dave Dee (15:54.194)
Yeah. Yeah, that is a great question. And this is going to be eye opening for you because you were there. Here's here is the key you deliver value, but not too much value. And I actually didn't deliver that much value in the presentation. So here is the key and this is the mistake.

that almost everyone who speaks to cell, and that's what we're doing, right? We're getting up there to speak to cell, whether it's on a webinar, on stage, or online, doesn't make any difference, is over delivering information. So when you over deliver information, and I'm gonna give you the exact structure of how to do this, right? Because that's the question that you asked. And then maybe we can do another part where we can really dive more into it. But…

When you deliver too much information, you think that you're giving value to your audience. But some bad things happen when you do that. The first bad thing that happens is that you overwhelm your audience, especially, and we use estate planning as an example, when you get into the nitty gritty details, which lawyers like to do because you guys, that's what you guys like, right? You like the detail, you're detail oriented.

the audience, first of all, more than likely is gonna get bored. And if they get bored, they're not paying attention. Even if they're sitting there, they're not mentally paying attention. The second thing is, if you overwhelm them with information, they get confused and a confused mind does not take action at the end. But the other really bad thing that you're actually doing a disservice to your audience is when you…

uh, deliver too much information, they believe falsely that they can get the result themselves. Oh, I've got all the information I need. I can go to rocket lawyer and just get everything done myself. And we all know that working with an attorney is not the same as going to rocket lawyer. Right. But if you give me all the information that I need, you leave me with that false belief that I can go do it myself.

Dave Dee (18:18.866)
So here is the structure. You want to deliver, and if people haven't been taking notes, you wanna take this and start taking notes, you wanna deliver, and this is all I did during that presentation, three pieces of information. The magic number is three. Why three? Because people can remember three. They can remember three things. So the question you wanna ask yourself is, when you're just…

Tyson (18:43.643)
By the way, I'm going to interrupt you, Dave. I've got three bullet points. You had three main topics, so I can verify what your thing is accurate. Yes.

Dave Dee (18:52.694)
Right. Yep. And so by delivering three, right. Your audience can process three. They can remember three. So the question that you want to ask yourself when you're creating your presentation is what are. If I can only tell this audience three things that they, that they need to know. And here's the key that they need to know that will create the desire inside them.

to take the next step.

Right. So what are the three things that my audience needs to know that will create the desire in them to take the next step? So in most cases with an attorney that again will use estate planning doing an estate planning seminar is for them to go to the back of the room and schedule an appointment. Right. Or doing a webinar, click the button to go to the online calendar to schedule the appointment. So.

The entire presentation is designed for one purpose and one purpose only. It is to create the desire inside of your audience to take the action at the end that you want them to take. And so you want to deliver three pieces of good information. And here's the key. I'll give you two. There's different ways to do it, but here's two. Tell them what to do, not how to do it.

By the way, that's great information because most people don't know what to do. Also tell them why it's important. So when you introduce the topic, just don't dive into it. Right. So for example, let's say that we're doing a presentation and we know that one of the common misconceptions is that a will, if I have a will, I'm all set. Right. And so you want to talk about why.

Dave Dee (20:50.47)
A will is not enough, right? That's not in the state plan, right? A will is just a tiny piece of it, but you need to explain to the audience, you need to sell them on what you're about to tell them is why it's so important. Okay. So you start off by introducing your topic, one of the three topics. You then sell them on why this is so important. Okay. And then.

You either tell them what to do, not how to do it, or you give them useful but incomplete information.

Useful but incomplete So there was I'm just making this up. So there are seven parts to a proper estate plan Now we don't have time to go over all seven today, but let me go over three Right, well, what do I want to know I want to know what the other four are

And so I'm giving useful but incomplete information. I'm telling them what to do, not how to do it. I'm selling them on why this is so important. So for example, if I was to, let's say I was selling an estate plan, right? And I, well, one other, I'm gonna give you one other big tip in a second because this is a really important one. Let's say I'm talking about estate plans. Well, and I wanna sell them on why it's important. Well, one of the easiest ways for me to do that is to go to all the celebrities that did not have an estate plan.

Right. And talk about those stories. Hey, here's what happened when, uh, I can't remember off the top of my head. In fact, I just helped somebody create a presentation. So I should know. Aretha Franklin. Exactly. Look at what happened. Didn't have an estate plan. And then you talk about, and then, then you can go into what a probate is and so on and so forth, right? So that is a key, but here is the most important.

Jimbo (22:28.985)
Aretha Franklin.

Dave Dee (22:46.968)
or an important piece of this. It's remember what you're selling.

Your presentation is not designed to sell them on putting together an estate plan. Your presentation is designed to get them to schedule an appointment.

Dave Dee (23:07.986)
So what a lot of attorneys do is they talk about, well, when you, after you work with me, right, all this great stuff is going to happen. Well, I'm not there yet. Right. You, I just want to know that I should be talking to you, whether you charge for the consultation or whether you do it for free. That's the thing that you're selling. So your presentation, yes, you do need to future pace how things will be. And future pacing is in two ways.

One is how the negative aspect of what will happen if you don't take care of this, the positive aspects of pain and pleasure, right? We know those are motivating forces. So yeah, we do need to do that, but the actual presentation is designed to get the audience again, to create that internal desire, that internal pressure that says, I need to do this now. I need to meet with Jim now. And by the way, also,

Disqualify people who you don't want to meet with now. We're getting into the some Deep stuff here, but I want to qualify people. I just don't want people on my calendar. I want people who Are qualified who I can really help And who are ready to do business with me I've got somebody in the financial. I work with a lot of financial advisors as well and He his financial he says when he does appointments, he doesn't want people that are info hogs

meaning people are just coming in to get free financial advice. In your case, it would be free legal advice. So we want to have people that are ready to take action, who we're meeting with, because then closing the sale actually becomes easier.

Jimbo (24:50.594)
dying over here because I'm doing everything wrong, right? So I have, yeah, I have, I was rubbing my head.

Dave Dee (24:54.854)
Yeah, I saw you rubbing your head there. I didn't know if it was like, oh my God, why did we have this guy on the podcast? Oh my God. We're not going to even be able to use this episode.

Jimbo (25:02.042)
No, quite the opposite. So Dave, I'm an immigration lawyer. I have a YouTube call-in show three or four days a week for an hour where people can call and ask me any question that they want for free. And it attracts probably some people that, definitely we get cases out of it. It's our best converting thing, but it's a total soft sell. It's just a call-in show. There's no presentation. There's no real call to action other than to leave me a five-star review. So.

And I get like 250 people watching live while we do the show, and by the next day, there's like 3,000 replays. So I have an audience now, and I probably need to start transitioning into more of this kind of an approach. I still have to do the calls, I think, but I think I'm probably doing some things wrong.

Dave Dee (25:49.018)
Yeah, so the first thing is not having a call to action at the end. So you don't have to make it… So my whole structure and so there's two pieces of doing a presentation, right? One is the actual presentation and the actual is how you deliver the presentation. So I'm not one of these guys and we've all seen these guys who… You know, they come out on the stage and, Hey, who wants to make more money? You know, that guy and…

Then he's standing on the chair in the back of the room and all of that. Right. Well, we want to maintain our, especially as an attorney, you want to maintain your professionalism. So you don't, and I don't, you do a hard close or you don't need to do a hard close. If you do everything right, as I kept mentioning, you've created the desire in the audience to want to do this. Now you do need to make an offer. Right. And that's a whole other conversation. What is an offer?

But an offer by the way is not just a consultation. That's a piece of an offer. But you don't have to do the high pressure stuff nor should you, because you don't want to come across as a snake oil salesman. You want to come across as a high powered attorney who cares, right? A great attorney who cares. And if I believe that you're a great attorney and that you care about me and you've just done something where

I need your help. Who am I gonna call? I'm gonna call you and So yeah, one of the things I would do Jim is I would absolutely have a standard call to action at the end whether that is to Call and set an appointment Whether it is to go fill out a form whether it's to download my report You know the seven the seven biggest misconceptions about

immigration, becoming a citizen. The seven biggest misconceptions about becoming a citizen. Okay, that'd be a great report for you to offer. Then, so this is how I would do it if I were you, all right? I would probably have that call to action at the end as opposed to, hey, if you've got a problem, schedule time with me. I would offer something else for free, but where you're collecting their contact information. Because imagine if out of that 3000,

Dave Dee (28:15.886)
10% of those requested the information. Well now you've got 300 people on your mailing list, on your email list. And then to those people, what I would do is then I would do at least once a month a live webinar where the entire presentation was designed to get them to book an appointment. And if you did that, you would probably double your results.

Tyson (28:46.227)
All right, so Dave, I'm just going to take a quick time out. I know we're at time. Can we go a little bit longer? Is that OK?

Dave Dee (28:53.644)
Sure, absolutely. I actually didn't know how long this was, so I blocked off an hour and I don't know if we want to go that long, but yeah, I'm happy to go as long as you want.

Tyson (29:02.412)
Jim, are you good on time?

Jimbo (29:06.898)
I can move what I have. Yeah, let's go till 45.

Tyson (29:08.743)
Are you sure?

Okay, okay.

Dave Dee (29:11.996)
Okay.

Tyson (29:15.207)
So Dave, I've got a question about short form because there's a lot of like TikTok and Instagram. And it's, I mean, that's what I've been focusing quite a bit on is short form. So you don't have a lot of time, like a lot of the stuff we've got to keep under 60 seconds. So how do we apply that to the short form videos?

Dave Dee (29:31.586)
Yeah. So it's tougher in the short form videos. And so again, it really goes back to the give them useful, but incomplete, right. And tell them what to do, not how to do it. The other thing, uh, an easy way to do this is write down. Number one, the biggest misconceptions that somebody has about whatever area of law you're practicing. Okay. So whatever the biggest misconceptions are.

So example, we do in the estate plan, we talked about the will, right? A will is enough. Well, a will is not enough. And here's why a will is not enough. And so you just come up with a whole list. So let's say you came up with 10 misconceptions. Well, then you have 10 different videos. The other way to do this is to reframe objections that your prospects would have as to why not to work with you as questions. So I often get this question.

Right. And then, so you just reframe, it's really an objection. So, and if you listed all of the objections that you get on a regular basis, right. Then you can, then you can do that as well. Um, but with the shorter form videos, those are really designed to keep you in front of people. And hopefully that there is somewhere that if they looked you up, so just like the advice I gave to Jim, if they looked you up, there'd be something that they could request.

so you get their contact information. And so that happens a lot. So I'll do short videos on clips on Facebook and people will just after seeing them for a while though, what's this Dave D guy, daved.com, they go to daved.com, then if you go there, you'll see that there's something for you to request information. You're opting in for a little video, right?

And so that's how you would do that. But it's tough in 60 seconds to, you know, follow the entire presentation structure. But that thing about the myths is a really good one. Uh, a really good one because it also gives people the feeling of aha. And it sets you up. They get that emotional feeling of like, Oh, I just learned something. And that cool feeling of, wow, I just learned something that knew that I didn't know.

Dave Dee (31:54.258)
It's a really good feeling and they attribute that to you. So that's a really nice strategy.

Jimbo (32:01.686)
Dave, one of your superpowers, I think, is telling stories and stories with a point and a cliffhanger. And we sort of reconnected recently on Facebook because you were doing these stories about your past and your time at GKIC and before. And every one of them was like, wait till tomorrow to hear the next thing. I mean, it was almost just like out of a soap opera or a serial from the old days. Can you talk a little bit about storytelling?

Dave Dee (32:09.727)
Yeah.

Dave Dee (32:17.299)
Yeah.

Dave Dee (32:27.19)
Sure, storytelling and which was actually leads to the next big tip. In this again, anything that we've talked about if anyone applies it We could it sounds so cliche, but it really could double your business really is If you should be doing at least a weekly email to your list At least a weekly email now. I do a daily email

And people would say, well, I wouldn't want to get your emails every day. Well, um, it, you wouldn't if they're written in a very boring way, but if they're written like the way you're talking about and then there's a story form and there's a cliffhanger and yet people do want to read those type of emails and so yeah, so storytelling is one of the most important things in any type of selling, uh, that, that you're doing. So you, in your one to many presentations, you want to weave in.

stories and because as Ever since we were little kids when someone say hey, your mom and dad told us a story. Hey, let's read a story I remember lying in bed with my kids Every night reading a story to them. So we have it built into our psyche that hey let me tell you a story people lean in and so The the idea is and that's a that's a really a big topic

to talk about in just a few seconds, but the idea is if you're telling a story, if it's a story about yourself.

Those are good stories, but it really needs to be related to the audience. So if you go back to my core story, then I just told a little piece of it because we didn't have a lot of time and I'm not selling anything here, right? Now if I was selling stuff, there'd be a lot more to it. All right. Okay, let's dissect that a little bit because this will be really cool for everybody. But so the first thing is if you notice when I told my core story, I tied it back.

Dave Dee (34:32.306)
to so it related to the attorneys. If you remember I said they were smart business owners because they realized that marketing is marketing is marketing, selling is selling is selling, and that I was selling a professional service just like they were selling. Right, I needed to generate leads, I needed to close the sale, I needed to deliver the service because when I tell my core story, if I don't have that piece in there, there's an audience full of attorneys.

They're like, this guy was a freaking magician. What does this have to do with me? But by adding in, by telling us the story and saying, well, smart attorneys started asking me for my help because they understood. Now, by the way, notice I told that in a story. I overcame a big objection, which is, well, what can this guy teach me? He used to be a magician.

But I also set it up that if you're smart, you're gonna ask me for my help.

Right, so.

Jimbo (35:34.194)
Now, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a minute, this is like magic. Like you're doing a magic trick, and now you did a magic trick at the start of the show, and now we're seeing it on the back end. You're explaining us sort of the magic of what you did when you started the podcast.

Dave Dee (35:38.758)
Uh-huh. Yep.

Dave Dee (35:47.87)
Yeah, yeah, that's exactly it. This is the hidden stuff. So I actually have a workshop where we go over all of this hidden stuff that you can use one to one or one to many, because there's one thing about putting together a slide deck to do a presentation, but then you've got this stuff. The other thing that I did is, and so the point is, in telling the story,

You want to answer it's a great place to answer objections Okay, notice that I did not say if you're smart you'll work with me That's too direct I just told it as a story Other smart business owners. In fact my and it was true. The first one was an attorney. She was an attorney But my very first big private client paid me 40 000

She was smart because she realized that my business was really no different than her business. And here's why. Oh, I got it. Right. So the other thing that I did and I didn't do it as because again, I'm not selling anything here, but I am. Right. I'm not asking for anyone's credit card, but I've already given out my URL. I've already said that there's free stuff that they can get. But here's the other thing.

Tyson (37:08.879)
If you were, by the way, Dave, if you were selling something, Jim would go and buy it right now because he's the guy that runs at the back of the room all the time. So, hey, now's the time.

Dave Dee (37:17.567)
Well, and by the way, that's what the most successful people do, and that's the truth. That's what the most successful people do. And so the astute among you noticed that I just did it again.

Right? But here's the other thing that I did. And I mentioned it a couple times. If I was selling something, I'd notice I said, even though I didn't have the money.

Dave Dee (37:44.874)
So when I tell my full core story, I talk about buying my very first product. And the entire story is I saw Kennedy speak, he was selling this product, I knew that I needed it, I knew that it was the right thing for me, I knew that was the thing that was gonna turn everything around for me, but I didn't think I could afford it.

But then I remembered something Jim Rohn said. Jim Rohn said that successful people invest in themselves and in their education. I knew that if I wanted to be successful, I needed to do what successful people did. So I went ahead and I bought that program, even though I didn't think I could afford it. So I tell that story at the very, very beginning of the presentation.

What I've just done is plant the seed in the audience's mind. Because I know when I get to the end and I'm selling something, my stuff is high ticket stuff, that there's gonna be somebody that's thinking, God, I really want this, but I can't afford it.

And so what happens is I planted that seed in their brain way at the beginning of the presentation. So at the end of the presentation, when I reveal the price of whatever it is I'm offering, if they think, I really want this, but I can't afford it, that seed that I planted earlier sprouts. And they remember that I said successful people invest in themselves and their education.

And so I've planted the answer to the objection inside their mind Before the objection has actually come up now if they don't have that objection. It's still a good story That seed just doesn't sprout And by the way, I know that this works because every time Every time I do a presentation at least one person comes up and says pulls me aside. He says, you know, I didn't This is really a stretch for me

Dave Dee (39:51.53)
But that thing about investing in yourself, that Jim Rohn said about investing in yourself and your education, I know that that's true. Right, so had I left that out, there would have been sales left out on the table that should have been mine. And also, I wouldn't be helping that person. So a lot of people say, well, this sounds like kind of manipulative stuff. And I guess it is, but one of my favorite saying is, the difference between manipulation and persuasion is intent.

What is your intent? Right, so if your intent is to sell people something that they don't need, that doesn't work, that is not gonna be good for them, then you're a snake oil sale, you're a con man, right? But if your intent is to help somebody, right? Then I think you need to do everything you possibly can that is within ethical bounds. And so by doing that kind of stuff, the kind of ninja magic trick stuff,

that we're talking about here, that's what elevates the presentation, allows you to help more clients and as a result, make more money as well, in the same amount of time and effort. That's the beautiful thing about selling, right? If I'm in front of an audience of 100 people and I'm only closing 10% of them and I use some more of these techniques and now I'm closing 20% of them, I've been up there for the same amount of time with the same number of people in the audience, I'm just getting better results. Same thing with one-to-one selling.

If I'm closing three out of 10 and I get really good at selling and I close six out of 10, I've just doubled my income with zero marketing expense. That's why I'm so passionate about this whole selling piece of it. And that's why I've really put my focus into there. So that was a long answer about storytelling.

Tyson (41:41.071)
That was great. Dave, we're going to wrap things up so we can get you out of here. How do people reach out to you if they want to work with you or get a hold of you?

Dave Dee (41:50.158)
Yeah, so the best way to do is to go to dave.com. So that's d-a-v-e-d-e-e dot com. We offer a free webinar that it's on demand so you can just go in there and we're gonna show you exactly step by step how to put together a presentation that sells. So in detail. And the new thing that I'm gonna be adding, and it's gonna be next week, so.

by the time this comes out, this will be up, is my entire PowerPoint one-to-many sales deck, which is designed specifically for people that sell professional services. So not somebody who's selling an info product, but someone who's trying to book an appointment at the end of their presentation. So I'm gonna give everybody that template, and then the training is exactly how to go and fill out this PowerPoint template, literally step-by-step. So at the end,

you have a one-to-many presentation that you can do either in person or online as a webinar. So if they want that, they go to daved.com and just give me your email address and you got it.

Tyson (43:01.223)
That is excellent. Thank you, Dave. And we're going to wrap things up before I do. So stick around, Dave. Before I do, I want to remind everyone to join us in the big Facebook group. There's a lot of great information being shared there daily. If you don't mind giving us a five-star review while you're listening to the rest of this episode, you've surely got some value from this episode. So if you've got some value, help us spread the love by giving us a review. And if you want to have a

Jimbo (43:01.323)
That's awesome.

Tyson (43:27.531)
nice little conversation with other guild members go to maxlawguild.com we just got back from miami not too long ago and i had a lot of fun at our quarterly mastermind so if you want to join us at our mastermind go to maxlawguild.com uh jimmy what's your hack of the week

Jimbo (43:43.146)
Well, since we had Dave on, I had to go back to the roots and old Dan Kennedy. And I've been rereading one of my favorites of his, which is the no BS ruthless management of people and profits. Um, I tend to be sort of the nice softer boss. And so I always need a little kick in the pants. I pull this one back out and reread it. Um, all the, all the Dan Kennedy stuff is great. And of course that's how I came across Dave in the first place, but this book in particular is good when I'm struggling with how to manage people.

Tyson (44:12.307)
That book is very direct. It's a good one. Very good. Dave, we always ask our guests to give a tip or a hack. It could be a quote, it could be a book, it could be a podcast, you name it. Do you have something for us?

Dave Dee (44:27.11)
Yeah, so since I mentioned this gentleman a couple times, I strongly recommend you go to JimRohn.com and you get the program that really was the catalyst for me changing my life, which was Take Charge of Your Life by Jim Rohn. First of all, he's the best speaker I've ever heard. And it is a wonderful program. And just that title, when I saw it, it was an audio cassette when I was listening to it.

shows you how old I am, audio cassettes. But just that title changed everything for me because he tells a story about how he was talking to his mentor, a guy by the name of Mr. Shouf, and how he actually had a list, a list of people he was blaming for why he wasn't successful. Well, my parents don't support me. The taxes are too high, on and on and on. And Mr. Shouf looked at him and said, Mr. Rohn, your list is really good. There's only one problem, you ain't on it.

Man, when I heard that, I was like, oh my goodness, I'm not on my own list. And honestly, that program was the catalyst that changed everything for me. So I strongly recommend you get Take Charge of Your Life by Jim Rohn.

Tyson (45:39.931)
Love it. Very good stuff. And it's ROHN for anyone that is wondering. Very good. So JimRohn.com. Mine compared to your two tips and hacks is not going to be nearly as good. All right. See you, Jimbo. Mine is Cloud Promptor. It's a teleprompter. I'd recommended a teleprompter. It's a Mac app for doing videos. But they now have a cloud version that works on all devices.

that is really good and I was a part of the beta program and they're going to be releasing it I think by the time this episode is out it will be available as well so I definitely recommend it. Dave, thanks so much for coming on this has been an honor to have you on really it really is I really appreciate it. I've been wanting to have you as a guest ever since we went to GKIC so this is just a pleasure thank you so much.

Dave Dee (46:29.93)
Thank you, it was my honor, it really was. I had a great time. You guys are really great interviewers too.

Tyson (46:35.801)
Well, thank you. We've had a lot of practice. So, very cool.

Dave Dee (46:37.829)
I can tell. I can tell.

Tyson (46:41.475)
so

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE

Are you someone who needs tips on staying organized? In this podcast episode, Tyson discusses the book "Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity" by David Allen. He shares the book's key concepts of capturing, clarifying, organizing, reflecting, and engaging with tasks. 

Tyson talks about the core idea of David Allen’s book. The idea is getting things done by moving tasks out of your brain, recording them somewhere external and then breaking them down into smaller, actionable items. Most people struggle with simply getting an idea on paper, which is where inaction starts. Tyson emphasizes the importance of writing ideas down on a piece of paper or in your notes app. The point of Allen’s idea is to reduce stress and increase the organizational efficiency of an individual. 

If you don't capture something, it is easy to become stressed and overthink things. Most times, if someone doesn't write something down, they spend time worrying that they will forget it and all of a sudden are juggling multiple ideas at once. Ultimately, this leads to an idea vanishing before it hits paper. Clarifying what the tasks are is another component of organization. This allows you to filter things and determine what the next steps are. Placing tasks into buckets is a helpful way to stay on top of things. Buckets can be separated into categories like errands, cleaning, hobbies, etc.

There may be times where other people are involved in the completion of tasks. In addition to categorizing tasks into “buckets”, it might be helpful to create a visual board where you have a section called “waiting on someone”. This could include all the things on “hold” while you are either waiting for someone to respond to something or complete something else prior to moving on to the task.

Take a listen to learn more!

Episode Highlights:

  • 2:25 The importance of recording tasks in an external system
  • 5:53 The process of organizing tasks into different buckets
  • 10:53 The importance of regularly checking the waiting on someone pile

Resources:

Transcripts: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity with Tyson Mutrux

Tyson (00:17.45)
Hey, it's Tyson and welcome back to another Bite Size episode that's aimed at elevating your practice. This week, I want to talk about a book that I absolutely love. And I've talked about it on the podcast before. It's a book called Getting Things Done, this art of stress, free productivity by David Allen. I would say that this is one of those books that it's an essential reading. I really, really recommend it. If you've not yet read A World Without Email, I would…

I would read that one first, but this one is a really good book that is going to give you some really practical approaches, but I'm going to give you the basics today. I'm not going to go through everything because it's fairly detailed with the book, but I'm going to give you the basics and if you enjoy it, then go read the book. Before I get into that, for those of you that have not yet gotten their hands on it, we've got a unique roadmap that's called Maximum Lawyer Minimum Time.

Typically, this is something that we only give to Guild members, however, but for people that listen to the Saturday show especially, we are giving this for free. We're giving Stage 1 of it for free to our members. And so, all you have to do is text Stage 1 to 314-501-9260. So, you're not getting the full maximum or minimum time. You get that when it comes to a Guild membership for free, but for listeners of this show, you do get…

the first stage, absolutely free. All you have to do is text 314-501-9260 and you will get it. All right. So let's talk about the book. The core idea around getting things done is moving tasks out of your brain. And then you record them somewhere that's external and then breaking them down into actionable items. All right. The main thing I want to emphasize, and I know almost all of you have this problem.

is getting those things out of your brain, out of your mind, out of your head and into something. And I don't care what that something is. That thing could be into, you could pen and paper, you could put it into, you could take a note on your phone, whatever it may be, it's getting it somewhere, all right? Getting it somewhere that's outside of your brain. And that same somewhere needs to be the same for everything. And this is something that it…

Tyson (02:43.238)
It took me a little bit to get over and that he talks a lot about putting everything that's in your brain, not just personal, don't separate from business, everything and put it into one place. That was something that I did. I was sort of having piles everywhere where, okay, this is for work. This is for personal life, different areas of my personal life. This is for this, different parts of the firm. That's why we had several can-bin boards and all that. We've started

reduce all of those different boards, all those different piles. I'm calling them piles. He doesn't really call them piles, but I'm calling them piles. Reducing those and getting them into a more centralized location. That way it can be easier organized. Okay. The whole approach, it's designed to reduce the stress and improve just organizational efficiency, your personal efficiency. And I think if you adopt some of these new techniques, you're definitely going to be able to tell a…

difference in your day-to-day productivity. I can tell you, I definitely do. So let's get into some of the key concepts around getting things done. The first part is that capturing everything. All right, I've got this broken into five different sections that I'm gonna go through his old workflow. There's a newer one that he has too, but I'm gonna go over the old one and I'm gonna encourage you to buy the book to get the new one, but I'm gonna go over it with you now. All right, so you wanna make sure you record all of your tasks.

and get it into some external system. Talked about that already. Really, really a big part of the process. And something that he does talk about is how you stress over these things, right? You, what happens is, is they stay in your head and not only do you forget many of them, but it's when you're thinking about them, so you've not gotten it out of your brain, you are, it's constantly on your, on your mind and you can't, you, it's not like you can think about two things at one time. You can think about one thing at a time.

And when you're supposed to be thinking about maybe writing that brief, you're instead thinking about how you're supposed to take your kids to, um, the theme park on Saturday and you got to remind someone to do something before that happens. So you're thinking about that. But if you would just written it down into your, your list of things that need to be done into your system. So I'm not going to, it's not a to-do list by the way, it's not a to-do list, but you get it into your system. You don't have to worry about that because you have a system for it.

Tyson (05:08.046)
and you don't have to worry about it, and you can focus on the things you need to focus on. So capturing it is really, really important. The next part of this is clarifying what the tasks are. So this is a big part of it as well, because you're going to start to filter things. So you're going to need to determine the next actionable steps for each item, and then you need to decide how to proceed with that specific task. What does each item really mean and what is the next step? It depends on the tasks, but…

think about it like unpacking a suitcase. You see what's inside the suitcase and then you need to decide what to do with each one of those individual items as they come through. Okay, so that's a good way of thinking about it. The next thing that you're gonna do is you're gonna organize. All right, picture your tasks going into buckets. All right, one for the office maybe, one for home. And by the way, I'm not saying separate boards, separate sheets, I'm saying the same system, but you are thinking about dropping them into different buckets, so we'll make sure we're clear about this. But…

Picture the different, the tasks, putting the tasks into different buckets. And I will even say I've got office home broken into several different buckets underneath that. So think about the different buckets, maybe one for errands. And then you want to categorize your tasks by context. And then that way you are, you're not just staring at a big mountain of tasks. You can look at them, you've got all your tasks in one place, but now you've got them separated into, into those different piles instead of one big mountain.

It allows you to, once you filter them into these different buckets, you can do a lot more things with them. Because what you don't want is, all right, I've got to, maybe you got to make a tax payment, right? You don't want that in the same pile where you need to go pick up your dry cleaning. Right? Those are, you don't want that to get in the way of each other. And you're going to want to be able to separate those in some way. All right. Next part, reflect. Another big crucial part, and it's one of those ones that you're going to

you're going to want to overlook. I even have it on my calendar for Fridays for reflection. You can do it whenever you want. I do recommend that you do that, but you need to regularly review and update your task list so that you can stay current with things. It's also a good time for you to be thinking about, am I collecting all this information in the right way? The way I should, is it the most effective way of doing it? But reflecting, it's going to allow you to look at your list and then decide what you can tackle next. You can start to triage things, prioritize things.

Tyson (07:33.794)
however you want to put it, but you want to check in with your system and know where you are. That's a big part of, a big important part of it. It's an important way to figure out where you're going next. And then the last part of this is engage, right? This is where the magic happens. It's now you have a clear head. You got a well sorted list. You can pick what to focus on now without that nagging feeling that I was kind of talking about, that you're forgetting something. So.

I do really quickly want to go through his workflow, which is really cool. I recommend that you get the book so you can check this out, but the stuff comes in, right? Comes into this big, the big box. You figure out what it is. After that, you determine is this actionable? If it's not, you can either eliminate it so you can throw it in the trash. You can incubate it. All right. So you can maybe, you know, deal with something later, uh, do something later with it, uh, so this sort of a someday maybe piles, what he calls it, or there, there could be multiple lists under the someday maybe piles.

And then the other one is reference. Maybe this is just a piece of reference material. So you'll put that in your reference materials folder or maybe a multiple reference materials folder. It could be in paper format, digital format, whatever it may be, but these are items that are not actionable. If it is actionable, you're gonna need to decide what's the next action. And this could be something where there are multiple steps. If there are multiple steps, you're gonna turn those into projects.

And we'll talk about projects in just a second, but if you determine, okay, what's the next action, you can do essentially three different things with it. If it's going to take you less than two minutes, you do it. You just do it right then. You don't do anything else with it, you're going to do it. If it's actionable and if it's going to take more than two minutes, you can delegate it. That's another thing. And you're going to delegate it. You'll have your different pile where you're going to delegate things. You can delegate to someone else. And then the third thing is you can defer it.

All right. You can, some of these things you would put on a calendar. So this is something that you're going to defer it, but let's say it's a phone call. Okay. This is something that I need to make this phone call. Okay. Put that on the calendar. You know that you're going to call at 5 PM on Monday or whatever, but you can defer that and put it, you're putting it somewhere though. It's been tracked. You're putting it on the calendar. Good. Or if it's something that's a bigger project, you can create your list of projects.

Tyson (10:00.99)
It's going to be deferred, but you're putting it into your projects, which I'm going to get to the projects next. And then you can start to tackle things in order of priority. Now let's go back to projects in a second, because remember you're identifying, is it actionable? Yes, it's more of a bigger project. There's multiple tasks underneath it. What you're going to do then is you're going to have the separate section for projects and under each one of those, you're going to have multiple tasks underneath it. And that's going to include maybe project plans.

you're going to go back through and review some of the actions that need to be taken. It's almost like a loop where you go, you take the next most important task in that project, you get that thing done, you kind of circle back through what's the next action. Okay, you go back to the project, you look, all right, the next step on this is task number two, and you kind of go through and you go through and you chisel down that project. And let's say you get to a point where it's an item that you're waiting on someone. Well, you kind of put that in the waiting on someone pile.

And so if you're using, we talked about Kanban boards in another episode, but you could even have a Kanban board where these are the items that you're waiting on someone. And that's one of these things where you see all your tasks and you know that you're waiting on someone. So you can look at that and you can see, and then routinely you work into your process. I need to revisit my waiting on someone pile. Go look at it. All right. I need to follow up with Mr. Smith, follow up with Mr. Smith, and maybe you're able to knock out that task. So that's how this process works.

I highly recommend it. I think it's a really cool process. Check out the book. It's, I think it's great. So it's one of those ones where it's a central reading in my opinion. But as a reminder, I'm gonna wrap things up. If you have something you want me to cover on the Saturday show, shoot me a text. Just text me 314-501-9260. We have a lot of great suggestions and I'm getting to as many of them as I can.

So keep them coming. Until next week though, remember that consistent action is the blueprint that turns your goals into reality. Take care.

Are you looking for a way to enhance your hiring process? In this episode, Becca Eberhart, CEO at Maximum Lawyer discusses the transformative potential of video introductions in the hiring process. 

AI tools like ChatGPT are being used to craft resumes and cover letters. This means hiring managers are not able to really know if a candidate’s credentials and experience is true or accurate. Becca talks about how integrating video introductions into the recruitment process is a game changer to really get to know the candidate. You are able to hear and see them right off the bat and get to know their personality and style. Normal resumes and cover letters can be generic and it can be difficult to find the perfect candidate for a role. Video introductions act as a preliminary face to face conversation with the candidate. This can quickly cut say 30 resumes down to a select few.

Becca walks through a few things to consider when deciding to use video introductions in the recruitment process. One thing is to establish clear guidelines and instructions for candidates to follow so they create a video that will get them noticed. It is a good idea to not tell them how to 

record the video or what tool to use. This can be a great way to see how resourceful the candidate is. Another thing is to set a time limit of how long the video needs to be. This will show if candidates understand how to be concise and focused. Since it is an introduction, keep videos short and to no longer than 1 minute. 

Listen in to understand how to streamline your selection process!

Episode Highlights:

  • 00:23 Video introductions provide a more personal way to evaluate candidates
  • 1:18 Text-based resumes may not effectively differentiate candidates
  • 2:30 To incorporate video introductions, set clear guidelines for candidates

Resources:

Transcripts: Pitch Perfect: How Video Introductions Enhance the Process of Hiring Contractors

Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson metrics. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:00:23) - Welcome back to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. I'm Becca Eberhardt, the CEO at Maximum Lawyer, and today we're talking about the role of video introductions and revolutionizing the process of hiring contractors and freelancers. This is my very favorite hiring tip. In a world where AI is increasingly used to craft cover letters and generate keyword packed resumes based on job ads, traditional text based resumes may not be the best indicator of a candidate's true value. So what's the alternative? Picture this you're in the midst of seeking the perfect contractor for your next project, instead of just sifting through resume PDFs. What if you could actually see and hear the potential candidates before making a decision? That's the power of video introductions. And in this episode, we're going to explore how they can transform the hiring landscape when it comes to resumes.

Speaker 2 (00:01:18) - What good is text, really? Most people are using AI to write cover letters and create keyword descriptions based on what was written in your job ad. Other than years of experience, there's going to be less and less that make candidates stand apart from one another. But video video is who they are as an individual. Video introductions add a personal touch to the initial evaluation phase. When you watch a candidate introduce themselves on video, you get a feel for their personality, communication skills, and even their enthusiasm for the role. It's like having a preliminary face to face interaction which can help you shortlist candidates more effectively. This also shows whether or not they can follow directions. For me, when I specifically ask someone to include a video and they still only send over a resume that says they don't find the video important. This in turn, can be a valuable insight into their ability to prioritize tasks based on their perceived importance, which may not align with your expectations. Not ideal. Now let's discuss the practical steps of incorporating video introductions into the contractor hiring process.

Speaker 2 (00:02:30) - First, we need to set clear guidelines. Provide candidates with clear instructions about what you're looking for in their video introductions. This could include a brief overview of their skills, experience, and why they're interested in the role. I personally don't tell them how to submit their video, even if you do prefer loom or a video uploaded to YouTube or Google Drive. If it's something they've never done before, I want them to figure out how to send a video. This shows me if they don't know how to do something, they can be resourceful and figure it out. Next, set a time limit again, this will show how well they follow directions and help keep their video concise and focused. I cap it at one minute. This isn't an interview, it's an introduction. You can tell how someone holds themselves, how well they communicate and see what their body language tells you all in one minute. Video introductions offer a new dimension to evaluating contractors and freelancers. They provide a glimpse into the candidate's personalities and communication styles, allowing you to make more informed decisions.

Speaker 2 (00:03:37) - They can significantly streamline your selection process by narrowing down the candidate pool early on, saving you time and effort in the long run. So don't just read about your potential hires. See and hear them in action through video introductions.

Speaker 1 (00:03:55) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Stay in contact with your hosts and to access more content, go to Maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time!

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE

Are you someone who has had to step back into a previous role? In this episode, Jim and Tyson discuss the challenges and opportunities that arise when law firm owners have to step back into roles they had previously delegated. 

If you are a law firm owner or work in a management role within the legal field, there may come a time where you will have to step into a role that was once filled by someone you delegated. This means there are a lot of learning curves and adjustments needed in order to do things right. Sometimes, being pulled back into a role is unexpected and will shift priorities because a whole team of people need you to step in and take control.

Tyson shares an example of stepping into a role when another attorney resigned. He learned about issues that existed in some cases that he never would have known if he didnt step into the role. This led to some new processes and protocols being put in place to deal with the issues. Jim says as law firm owners, they need to have a more active role in their team’s day to day operations.

Jim shares the frustration of getting pulled back into a leadership role and not feeling okay with giving the reins to the new person. It can be hard to turn things over to a new leader after doing the work for a few months and ironing out all the kinks. Jim shares his experience with finally cleaning up the intake system for his firm and feeling himself holding back in giving the responsibility to the new manager. Sometimes there is this feeling of wanting to perfect something before you give it away. This can cause you to not get back into your former routine and focus on your main tasks. It is important to trust yourself and the person who has come into the role to take over and lead.

Jim and Tyson talk about decision making and the need to make them quickly, especially if you want things to get done and cases to close at times that are appropriate. Whether the decision is right or wrong, it is important to make the decision so you are not lagging and wasting time. For example, if you need to replace a team member or hire because there is a need, do it now so that worry is dealt with.

Take a listen to learn more!

Jim’s Hack: If you don't have an assistant, you are the assistant. If you are doing all the  lower level work and you are busy, you need to pass it down to other people. It is important to hire virtual assistants or other administrative staff to optimize yourself.

Tyson’s Tip: Treat every hour working out or sleeping as being worth $10,000. That way, you are more likely to focus and prioritize doing it.

Episode Highlights:

  • 3:11 Tyson and Jim share their personal experience of being pulled back into a leadership role
  • 11:00 The frustration and guilt experienced when being dragged back into tasks
  • 17:26 Highlighting the need to make decisions quickly

Resources:

Transcripts: How to Handle Being Pulled Back into Roles You've Delegated

Speaker 1 (00:00:03) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson metrics. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:00:27) - Welcome back to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. I'm Jim Hacking.

Speaker 3 (00:00:31) - And I'm Tyson Metrics.

Speaker 2 (00:00:32) - So I want everyone to think about Al Pacino in Godfather three. And Tyson has a great impersonation of him. So let's hear it.

Speaker 3 (00:00:40) - I don't know if I can pull it off again. They keep pulling me back in.

Speaker 2 (00:00:45) - Exactly. So just when I think that I'm out, they keep pulling me back in.

Speaker 3 (00:00:49) - So by the way, Jim was saying that sarcastically. We're not saying that's a really good impression just so people don't don't expect a really good impression.

Speaker 2 (00:00:59) - So what I'm talking about and what we're talking about is that situation that we find ourselves in as law firm owners, at whatever size we are, where we get used to other people doing a job or a task or filling a role on leadership or some some pretty high level role in the firm.

Speaker 2 (00:01:18) - Maybe it's your first associate, maybe it's your office manager. It can be anybody. But it's it's when you get into that nice, comfortable spot where everything's humming along and then something happens. Somebody quits, somebody leaves, and and you find yourself pulled back in to these roles that you've had in the past, and now you're seeing that maybe they weren't doing things the way you did it. You they might have made it better. You might have to learn how to do something or relearn how to do something. It's just such an interesting time that we haven't really spent a lot of time with or speaking about on this show, that I thought it would make a nice topic for today.

Speaker 3 (00:01:56) - Love the topic. I'm currently in that spot right now. I'm assuming by by you having the topic that you you're doing something similar right now. It's it is one of those things where I actually had convinced myself I was like I was I'd gotten beyond it because it's it's kind of like swimming against a tide and you're.

Speaker 3 (00:02:19) - You've gotten to the gotten to shore and you're like, okay, I'm good. I'm like walking on the sand. And I'm like, walking up towards the beach and I'm good, right? But. And then a big wave comes and drags you right back in, and I feel like I was kind of walking on the sand back up to the beach. And then we had a, you know, we had an attorney resign and we so I'm right now I'm in the I've taken over red team, which is our biggest team. It's got hundreds of cases in it. And because we're it's one of those things where we we had two weeks but we have a we have a long hiring process, you know that. And it's fine. Like everyone's rallied around it. But I think there's a lot of what you're talking about resonated quite a bit where I looked in and like she she was following the process on some things, but like there are certain things that just were not being done the way they're supposed to be being done.

Speaker 3 (00:03:11) - It's supposed to be being done. And but it's what I think is really interesting is about it is, is that I'm able to take those examples and it's actually strengthening the team. So it sucks. It's going to suck for me for the next month or two. That's fine. And I, I told the team it was like, as long as you I'll do this, as long as you'll need me to, okay? I was like, it's like I'm not afraid of work, of working hard. So whatever y'all need, I'm willing to do it. And I just told him like, it's we are sacrificing quite a bit because we're not. The expansion is going to have to take sort of a backseat. We're in the middle of a massive systems migration. Luckily, we've got a systems team that can help manage those things, but that is the that is the benefit of having a lot of, you know, a big team is having people that can kind of fill gaps, but it is what it my the point I was going to make was, was really interesting is, is that I'm able to take the examples of this is not how we do it, like things were being done the wrong way and then show the other teams and they're like, oh, and they're able to learn from it.

Speaker 3 (00:04:14) - And then the team gets strengthened as a result of it. So I think there's a lot of positives that are coming from it. But this is a very timely topic.

Speaker 2 (00:04:21) - It's going to suck for me for a couple of months. That's what you said. And I think that's really where you end up. And the question is, can we build a law firm that can sustain that? I mean, the problem is you don't want to over you don't want to have too many people and you don't want to have people sort of waiting around for someone to leave, but you want to try to build your firm in a way that it can absorb it. Certainly having extra people there and certainly having systems for getting new people up to speed help minimize that. But I think we have to just say out loud the part that you just said out loud, which is it's going to suck for you for a couple of months. And the quickest thing to do, I think, is the most important thing to do early is to say to yourself, this is not going to be like this forever.

Speaker 2 (00:05:04) - And I've I've really enjoyed the benefits of having that person be here. I'm bummed that they're leaving. We are going to make it stronger and better and having me back involved in this particular department. So for me right now, that's intake. Our intake attorney, who was running the department resigned. And so and that was very unexpected. So I find myself back in helping the intake team for a while. And when we're done with this call, I have a meeting with them about what our plan is to sort of put someone else in in that position and sort of transition. And it's I don't want to just jump to solving, solving, solving. I want to acknowledge for everybody that we all go through this and that it is hard and that it is a bummer. And you do feel sort of like someone is taking something from you and it's a loss.

Speaker 3 (00:05:53) - Well, yeah. And I think part of acknowledging this is that, I mean, I went in and and one of the things I've learned from this is that you got to go beyond the, the numbers, got to dig deeper than the KPIs.

Speaker 3 (00:06:07) - And you have to sometimes you have to sometimes be that principal that sits in the back of the classroom and actually monitors the teacher, because what I've, what what I'm realizing is, is that. I wouldn't have learned a lot of the issues with some of these cases if I had not actually gone through the cases, and I think we need to have a more active role. There needs to be another set of eyes that is going through the cases actively. And we've we're putting in we actually have got some protocols that we're going to put into place to help address some of the issues that I'm seeing here. Like, Jim, there are right now in the one team, this is one team, the other teams, they actually are doing fine in discovery. But this one team has 12 cases with discovery overdue, like 12 cases like. That's insane. That is absolutely insane. And like what's interesting is like, we've been able to chop it down. It was more than 12, by the way, but we've been able to chop it down quite a bit.

Speaker 3 (00:07:08) - And I'm happy to say by the end of this week or next week, it'll all be done. But there were like little things that were not just being. It's weird how little things then lead to big things. And I one of the major lessons that I've, I've been trying to convey to the team, and I think that they're getting it is, is that it's not it's not just that the discovery is late. And by the way, for those of you that may be concerned in states with like very strict discovery deadlines, Missouri is fairly loose when it comes to the discovery. There might be a motion compel or whatever if that does happen. But it's it's not like it's going to hurt the clients or anything other than slowing down the case, but it's not. And I think that we can we can take this discovery example, and I think many people can apply it to many other areas of their law firms. So for example, you are late on discovery because you didn't do a couple small things, like there was a set of discovery gym that was all done.

Speaker 3 (00:08:04) - It just had not been sent to the other to the other side. It was 100% done. And so, so not taking that one action. Here's what it leads to, right? Whether it's all being done or not. But you you get an email from opposing counsel that you then have to respond to. So you have to respond to that, that email, that's an additional communication that you're going to take. And then you have to ask for additional time. All right. So let's say you get 14 days 14 days goes by. They send you a golden rule letter. You have to respond to the golden rule letter. Then what happens is, is that they filed a motion to compel. Right. They're filed a motion to compel. And you have to show up to court, right? You show up to court, you get an extension again, you get the extension, and then you finally get the discovery done. But you've taken all these additional actions whenever you if you just would have done the thing at the beginning, you've saved yourself hours.

Speaker 3 (00:08:54) - But because you didn't do that one little thing, you've now cost yourself several hours, which then snowballs into other cases. And and I think that we can apply that same principle to anything, whether it's leads, whether it is, you know, payroll, whatever the whatever it is, I think we can apply that to several different principles.

Speaker 2 (00:09:11) - So that's, that's the interesting part, is that when the boss comes back or the owner comes back and looks around and they notice that things aren't the way that they are, then you have to. I mean, of course, we always say everything comes back to us. Everything's our responsibility. Things are the way they are because of us. So then you ask yourself, well, how did my systems fail that we didn't get that. I didn't know until she left. That discovery was overdue in 12 cases or in our situation, that we had certain cases that were languishing monies back in some casework and that some cases were languishing in the clients were sort of unhappy.

Speaker 2 (00:09:51) - And so then then you have to go back and attack your system. So there's always an opportunity in hardship. There's always a chance to get better. But you do sort of have to say to yourself, hey, what's my role in this? Where was I dropping the ball even before this person left? And and maybe sometimes it's a blessing that they left because it might keep you from committing malpractice.

Speaker 3 (00:10:13) - Yeah. To me, it's my like, actually, that's my favorite part of all this is that I'm saying, okay, we could we could easily shore this up here and we can easily shore this up there like it's there's most of them are actually small. Like pretty small tweaks is what they, they they are for the most part. And I actually think it's, it's actually one of those things to me it's almost refreshing actually. It's like oh okay, cool. Like I get I've got an inside look on this. We can tweak our systems and, and make them a little bit better. But I'm curious, like what you've learned from having to go back and kind of dive back into things like, what are some of the things that you've picked up from it?

Speaker 2 (00:10:49) - Well, I'll get to that in a second.

Speaker 2 (00:10:51) - But I do want to say one thing, and that is this might not surprise you, but I used to get real mad when this would happen, right? Like I used to get real mad.

Speaker 3 (00:11:00) - Really, Jimmy? Get mad, huh?

Speaker 2 (00:11:02) - I know it's hard to believe, but, yeah, you know, I would get mad that I was getting dragged back in. I thought, oh, here I am polishing the silver again. I'm a terrible boss, you know? This is this is my fate in life to have to do. I mean, for you to have to, if it was you to. Do discovery for the rest of my life, or I have to do these days, one 60s at the National Visa Center for the rest of my life, you know? And of course, that's why I loved what you said right out of the boxes. This is going to suck for me for a couple of months because, like you said, you do shored up, you do shored up, and you do, you know, figure out ways.

Speaker 2 (00:11:37) - I mean, the cool thing is, is that your new fresh set of eyes watching how people are doing things around there, and then when they realize that you're there to help, it does build the bond, and it shows that you care and there's lots of benefits to it. But what I've learned, one thing I've learned, in fact it was yesterday, is that. Sometimes I get stuck. So this intake situation. I want to give it to the new person. All fixed, cleaned up and ready to go. And because of that, I'm holding on to it for too long and not giving her the chance to help me fix it. In other words, I want it to be perfect before I hand it off. But sometimes you can't do that. And so because of that, it was sort of holding me back in moving forward because I wanted to give it to her perfectly. And I felt guilty for having to give it to somebody, not perfectly. So we sat down and figured out, you know what? What's Jim going to do? What's mojo going to do? What's Suzy going to do? And and that's sort of what we're what we're doing.

Speaker 3 (00:12:42) - I wonder how much of with what you're talking about is, is that you like I think I think the way that most firms and teams and firms are formed is like, you kind of just you form them and you sort of figure it out like it's. And I wonder if like, it's a lesson that maybe we should go back more often. And because that's the way teams are formed, that we go back and we revisit it to see like more often. Let's look at these a little bit more often to check and see how things are going. That way we can revise things a little bit quicker as opposed to waiting so long. Like we like we probably typically do.

Speaker 2 (00:13:18) - Well, I think that's a I mean, that's a really interesting point, and I think there should be something along those lines because in a different department that I'm not that there's not a sense of urgency. Everybody's still there. Everybody's doing really well. It's our lawsuit department is I've just been I started at the top. Tell me how you do your job from start to finish.

Speaker 2 (00:13:38) - And we have spotted probably between 15 and 20 substantive things that we can do in their workflow to make their life a whole lot better and to make them much more efficient. So, I mean, there's an argument to be made. I think if it's the owner or someone on the leadership team to just go from department to department on a routine basis, almost pretending like somebody left and creating that sense of urgency and that sense of Fix-It ness and let's let's make things better on a routine basis. I think that's, you know, that's probably a really good thing to do. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:14:13) - What's it it's really interesting. It's and I, I do I do have a little bit of doubt with what you just proposed and I'm, I think it's a good idea. I think it's the only doubt. You said a little bit of doubt.

Speaker 4 (00:14:25) - Doubt.

Speaker 3 (00:14:25) - Because here's what I was. One of the major things I've learned is, is like people are loving. Like they love seeing me get in and roll my sleeves up and get shit done.

Speaker 3 (00:14:36) - Like I've like, like I've had several messages from teammates, like the team members saying, hey, like, hey, like, this is awesome. Like, like they just love seeing the action like, and things getting done. But I think that it because I think that's like I'm in the trenches with them. But if you're the owner and you come in and you're, you're sitting next to them, my, my worry is a little bit that they're thinking that you are micromanaging them like that. You may hear that term and you're not really it's not what you're doing. But so my I think my advice to people would be like, make sure that it's very clear to them that you're going in there to help improve things. And it's, it's it's more of like an improvement of the firm and not necessarily an improvement of the attorney or the the team. It's to make everyone better. And then that way they don't feel like they're being micromanaged.

Speaker 2 (00:15:26) - Well, I think micromanagement is more about taking over particular cases and telling them, do this, do that.

Speaker 2 (00:15:32) - I think this is more structural. And so I do think one of the reasons people get jazzed about when we come back and sort of fix things is one is that we're the owners so we can cut through a lot of bullshit and just say, just make it. So just make it now. Make it fast, you know? And it's just otherwise they have to like, run it through a committee and talk to all these other people. But when we come back, we can just go, that's dumb. Let's not do that anymore.

Speaker 5 (00:15:56) - Yeah.

Speaker 3 (00:15:57) - Like and there is something we should teach our people to be more, more quick about making decision making and decision about making decisions. Anyway, like what's interesting is like some of the things I'm saying and I wonder how much you see this on your side. It's just like it's the resistance to make a decision where like, it's kind of they're kicking the can down the down the road a little bit on a bunch of these cases, it's just the can was kicked down the road as opposed to picking up the cane and put it in the trash, you know, like like doing something with the can as opposed to kicking it down the road.

Speaker 3 (00:16:27) - So, I mean, are do you see much of that whenever you step into a team? Because that's what I'm seeing with this team.

Speaker 2 (00:16:32) - Well, my friend, this is our curse as law firm owners. Because if your law firm is like my law firm, you have a lot of high fact finders, a lot of high follow through, sort of personally conservative. In other words, they don't like a lot of change. They don't like a lot of mayhem. And so, you know, they want to explore all the possibilities. Their lawyers, their paralegals, their. Detail oriented. So yeah. So yeah, for sure. I see that a lot. And sometimes people tell me this stuff and I'm like, are you are you kidding me? You need you need ten days to do that. I mean, really. Yeah. So for sure.

Speaker 3 (00:17:09) - You know, Alex Ramsey, he was interviewed the other day really was the video was released the other day and he was he was talking about the difference between like like why there were some people that are like, like worth hundreds of millions of dollars and some people that are worth, like, you know, substantially less.

Speaker 3 (00:17:26) - And he's like, well, like a decision like that takes you a month or two to make where you say, I'll make that decision at the end of the week, or I'll make that decision next month, or we'll get this done by next month. I say we're going to do it by the end of the day. Like, and so like I'm working. I'm getting these things done substantially faster. Whenever it's taking you years to get some things done. It's taken me weeks. And I was like, that's a I think that's a really powerful lesson where like just what whether the decisions wrong or not, you'll figure it out pretty quickly. Just make the decision and then keep moving and then empowering your team to do those. And and you know, it's not just our team members either, but like us as well. Like if you need to add another team, add another team, do it now. Stop waiting. Or if you need to replace a team member, replace that team member now.

Speaker 3 (00:18:12) - So when you go in there and you look at these teams, make those decisions now as opposed to waiting a year because you're you're just delaying your success and delaying your progress.

Speaker 2 (00:18:21) - I was just looking up a quote from General Schwarzkopf when placing command, take charge, making decisions is the only way to move forward. Yes, even incorrect decisions. A person who makes a thousand wrong decisions is better off than a person who makes no decisions at all. Because once you make a decision and start action, then you can tweak it and make it better as you go. If you get stuck, you get stuck. And so yeah, I mean, that's that's that's a hard thing. It's just getting that sense of urgency and getting people to move. And every time I slow down, I make less money. Every time I go faster, I make more money.

Speaker 3 (00:18:50) - Go faster, baby. All right. We do need to wrap things up. Anything else? Any final thoughts on this?

Speaker 2 (00:18:54) - No, just other than to tell people, you know, we're all in this together.

Speaker 2 (00:18:58) - We all have this phenomenon. We all experience this sense of loss and sadness when people leave and when we find ourselves having to do things that we thought we were past doing. You know, when you're the owner, you don't want to be doing all this lower level stuff forever, but you also want to take the opportunity that you have to make your firm better. And to do it sort of in a, in an accepting and a happy place.

Speaker 3 (00:19:20) - Love it. All right. Let's wrap things up, Jimbo, before we do, before we get to our tips and our hacks of the week, which are going to be amazing, I'm sure if you don't mind living as a five star review, we would greatly appreciate it. Wherever you get your podcast, if you get something from this podcast, we would love it if you'd help us share the word by giving us a review, please do that. We would greatly appreciate it and then join us in the in the big Facebook group. There's just a lot of great information always being shared.

Speaker 3 (00:19:49) - And if you want to hang out with with us and some other guild members that are amazing, go to Max Law Guild. We just got back from Miami and that was an awesome trip. I loved it down in Miami. I got to see a lot of great guild members. So join us at Max Law guild.com. Jimmy, what's your hack of the week?

Speaker 2 (00:20:11) - My hack of the week comes straight from that guild mastermind, and that is our friend Brett Trembley came and presented on his book, 24 Months to Freedom. It's all about his theory that if you don't have an assistant, you are the assistant. And you're doing all that sort of lower level work that you need to pass down to other people, I thought he had a really great presentation on the topic of working with Vas, or working with assistants or scaling up and leverage, and I think that it's a nice quick read. You probably read in about two hours. So the next time you're on a flight, just grab the book. I'm sure Brett will send it to you, and you can figure out ways to to optimize yourself and leverage yourself.

Speaker 3 (00:20:48) - Yeah, if you just I think if you go to their website, you can get it for free. So I know you can get the the PDF for free, but I'm sure the physical version too. I know the last time he he presented at Max con, he gave away a free an actual free physical copy of a book of another one he wrote. But that is a good one. You know what? I'm going to go. I'm going to switch mine up. I was going to give it another one. But based on what you just said, I'm going to give. And I posted this in the guild, something Marco Brown said. And I think it came from a book. Someone said it came from a book, but I don't know which book it came from. But treat every hour that you work out and every hour that you sleep is worth $10,000. And he said it's probably worth substantially more than that if you really think about it, probably is. But if you do that, if you if you think about them as being worth $10,000, you're far more likely to do them.

Speaker 3 (00:21:34) - And I mean, I using that, I've actually been focusing more on my sleep. Like my my working out is scheduled, right. That is easy for me. Like that's easy because it's scheduled up. But it's the it's the part where I've got to go to bed at a certain time and forcing myself to do that and viewing it as worth $10,000, far more likely to do it. So thank you, marker for. Sharing that. I thought it was amazing and hopefully people get something from that. But Jimmy, as always super fun. Can't wait to talk to you more today.

Speaker 1 (00:22:04) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Stay in contact with your hosts and to access more content. Go to Maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.

Watch the YouTube version of this episode HERE

Are you an attorney who is looking to improve efficiency with your firm? In this episode of the Maximum Lawyer Podcast, Tyson discusses the "90/10 Principle" for improving law firm efficiency and profitability.

Tyson discusses the importance of the 90/10 principle. The principle involves clearing the 10% of cases that are either not profitable for the firm or attorneys don't want to focus on them to create a more lean practice. In order to identify these cases, you need to go through the caseload and pinpoint the bottom 10% by determining the case value. Looking at the financial side of things is a great way to determine this because you can determine how much money it costs to keep the case on the books. 

Figure out how much resources are going towards a case. If it is high, it might be time to cut ties with it. Also consider how much energy is being put towards a case. If the case is sucking a lot of energy and time from the firm, it can be put in that 10%. Once you determine the bottom 10%, look to identify the top 10% of cases for the firm. This is because once you shed the cases you don't want, all that energy will be put towards the top 10%. This could mean delegating your best attorneys to those 10% since they are high priority.

Ensure this is a recurring process. For example, put time in your calendar once a quarter or once a year to re-evaluate the cases that the firm is handling. This could be changing the bottom 10% and top 10% every 4 or 12 months.

Take a listen to find out how to ensure greater efficiency for your firm!

Episode Highlights:

  • 00:24 Introducing the 90/10 principle, a variation of the Pareto principle
  • 2:25 The process of identifying the bottom 10% of cases
  • 3:20 Redirecting the effort from the bottom 10% of cases to the top 10%

Resources:

Transcripts: Clearing the Deck: Boosting Law Firm Success with the 90/10 Principle

Speaker 1 (00:00:01) - Run your law firm the right way. The right way. This is the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Podcast. Your hosts, Jim Hacking and Tyson metrics. Let's partner up and maximize your firm. Welcome to the show.

Speaker 2 (00:00:24) - Welcome back everybody. It's Tyson today for another Saturday episode. And today I want to talk about something I call the 9010 principle okay. The 9010 rule. And I'm sure that a lot of you have heard of the 8020 principle, the Pareto principle, where 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes. I'm taking the 9010 rule to narrow that focus even more. And what this comes from is this quarter, our theme is clear the decks. And what we mean by clearing the decks is getting rid of all of the cases that we don't need anymore, that we don't want anymore, that are not nearly as profitable for the firm, but also settling cases as well so they fit in with this theme, fits in with our our normal KPIs where we focus on settling cases, getting cases resolved.

Speaker 2 (00:01:20) - So whether that is settlement or through trial and and getting the best possible results for clients obviously. But we are we are in the middle of a pretty big firm expansion where we're we're spreading into multiple states and we're needing to clear the decks before we kind of go into battle. So that's where that comes from, is we're clearing the decks before we get into 2024. So we can we can have a lean, mean fighting machine. And so I'm going to talk to you about this this technique that you can use though that's consistent in getting rid of cases but focusing on the most important ones. So what is this 9290 ten rule that I'm talking about. And it's a really simple tool. But what you're going to do is you're going to go through your caseload and you're going to pinpoint the bottom 10% of the cases that are really bogging you down, and you're going to need to dig into these cases and determine, all right, what's the average case value of this? What is the part of this is a little subjective.

Speaker 2 (00:02:25) - So there's the financial part of it where okay how much money is this bringing into the firm. What's it costing the firm. And resources however but also in energy. Right. Is there a client that. Yeah, maybe they're paying us a bunch of money. But the overall effect, the net effect of of just them draining our energy is not good. So you're going to want to put them into that bottom 10%. So don't think about this just financially a big part of this financially. So we look at it a lot by the case value. But you need to also look at it based on okay what energy is this sucking from the firm. All right. So here's I think this is where the magic comes in. You're getting rid of those bottom 10% of cases. What you're going to do after that though is you're going to take that attention, that time, that effort, all of that in. And after you've identified your your top 10% of your cases, you're going to take that all of that effort that you were focusing on with the bottom ten and focus on the top 10% of cases.

Speaker 2 (00:03:20) - This is going to propel you. This is going to like throwing gas on a fire to get your firm to that next level. And that's why I wanted to make sure I share this with you, because you are you're going to be taking I mean, think about all that draining energy from those bottom 10% and you're going to then boom, apply that directly to the top 10%. And that is how you're going to get your firm to the next level. And there's a quote from Warren Buffett that makes me think about this 9010 rule. And he talks about the difference between successful people and really successful people. Is that really successful people say no to almost everything. And what you're doing is you're saying no to almost every other case, right? You're only focusing on the top 10% of cases. You're obviously not ignoring those other. Once you've gotten rid of the bottom 10%, you're not going to ignore the rest of the cases, but you're going to put your primary focus on those. And maybe you dedicate a team to those top 10% of cases.

Speaker 2 (00:04:16) - However, you need to do it, but you need to you need to have your main focus. You need to prioritize, prioritize those. Maybe you review those cases first. Maybe you're reviewing those cases every single week or every single day, depending on the type of cases that you handle. So all your marketing efforts should be focused on that top 10% of cases that you that you want to acquire. So take that that effort, all that wasted effort from the bottom ten and then apply it to the top ten. All right. And then something else you can do with this is just set it on your calendar to evaluate every few months. You can do it every quarter if you want. You can do it yearly. Ours is the way we the way we deal with our cases. It's a little bit more effective if we do it yearly as opposed to quarterly, but I'm not opposed to a quarterly one, one of the one of the rules in our offices that if you identify a case immediately and ours is different from someone that's doing family law or estate planning, but if it's an injury case, and if we identify that it's going to be a lower value case, we need to get rid of it immediately and move on and let the client know, hey, this is not something that we're going to build a handle for you and then let them go find another attorney because it's not fair to them and it's not fair to you.

Speaker 2 (00:05:22) - You. Got to move on and let them. Let them still have access to justice. But they can do it with a with another attorney. All right. So hopefully by adopting this approach will mean greater efficiency for your firm. Hopefully it'll improve the job satisfaction that your employees will have. It'll improve your bottom line, which would be good for you. But it's going to also avoid you from sinking a ton of resources into cases that offer very little in return. And often they take more than what they're actually going to benefit you. So make those tough calls, drop those cases out of your bottom 10%, and then open the door to redirecting that energy into that top 10% so that you can take your firm to the next level. So I want you as an action item on want you to take a look at your caseload. Do it today. Identify those cases that are really holding you back. And then. Figure out a plan for for kindly, nicely ethically moving those cases out of your office.

Speaker 2 (00:06:25) - All right, so that's a wrap for today's episode. Hopefully you will apply this 9010 principle and that you'll get something out of it. But until next time, consistent action is the blueprint that turns your goals into reality. Take care.

Speaker 1 (00:06:42) - Thanks for listening to the Maximum Lawyer podcast. Stay in contact with your hosts and to access more content. Go to Maximum lawyer.com. Have a great week and catch you next time.

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